RE: ISA on SBS webcast
- From: "Thomas W Shinder" <tshinder@xxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: "[ISAserver.org Discussion List]" <isalist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 14:44:18 -0600
Hi Steve,
We've been through this with her a gadzillion times. Just consider her
uneducable on this point. On one hand she says "well, we use OL2003 etc"
and on the other hand not. In which case, unless you have a full-on
OL2003/EXCH2003 setup, the .local is a travesty :)
Tom
Thomas W Shinder, M.D.
Site: www.isaserver.org
Blog: http://spaces.msn.com/members/drisa/
Book: http://tinyurl.com/3xqb7
MVP -- ISA Firewalls
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Steve Moffat [mailto:steve@xxxxxxxxxx]
> Sent: Monday, November 21, 2005 2:00 PM
> To: [ISAserver.org Discussion List]
> Subject: [isalist] RE: ISA on SBS webcast
>
> http://www.ISAserver.org
>
> You said..."As an example....I have yet to be convinced that naming a
> SBS box anything other than .local gives me any more choices for
> configuration than I already have. Again, we're dealing with a small
> business and for the vast majority of them, I'm not seeing that they
> benefit from deviation from the install routine."
>
> Well....what about the thousands of SBS boxes...and ordinary servers,
> that show the mails coming from blah.blah.local and the postmaster
> address is blah@xxxxxxxxxxxx
>
> Steve
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: sbradcpa@xxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:sbradcpa@xxxxxxxxxxx]
> Sent: Monday, November 21, 2005 2:12 PM
> To: ISA Mailing List
> Subject: [isalist] ISA on SBS webcast
>
> http://www.ISAserver.org
>
> Man the stereotypes in these threads :-)
>
> A couple of things of interest here....
>
> At SMBnation last year Mike Iem asked someone from the ISA
> team [not Jim
> I'm sure prob dark side of marketing] to represent ISA at
> SMBnation but
> they didn't accept [I don't know if a booth fee was involved or not
> ...just that there wasn't any ISA representation other than
> Jim Harrison
> and Amy and the rest of us going 'man...you should have
> presented...why
> was Sonicwall here?'
>
> ISA 2004 is finally a platform that the SBS consultant doesn't have to
> read Excel files to figure out what's going on. ISA 2000
> wasn't ready.
> 2004 is. You are seeing a maturing of ISA that finally has
> the balance
> of flexibility and monitoring/logging so that it makes sense now.
>
> You can see it in the marketplace as well, folks aren't going
> ...oooh....
> ISA....isn't that hard? Now they are saying ...hey the cool stuff in
> the monitoring tab and other such things.....
>
> Yes folks, this is about supportability. You don't own that SBS box,
> you have a fiduciary responsibility to that business owner to
> install a
> system in a manner that Mothership Los Colinas doesn't go
> "what the heck
> did you do with that SBS setup?'
>
> I challenge all of you to take a SBS box [vmware or vpc] install it
> with duhfaults [as a friend of mine would say on another
> listserve] and
> run the Connect to Internet wizard.
>
> Now... take a SBS box and stand it up manually...no wizards... all by
> hand.
>
> Okay now calculate a bill and present each one to your customer.
>
> Which one is that client going to pay for?
>
> How much more security is he getting?
>
> Questions to ask yourself... is the manual method so much more secure
> that
> the client is willing to pay for your time? Open up the icwtext.log
> file
> and see the umpteen selections there. Can you honestly say that a
> totally manual method is vastly superior over the using the wizard and
> then adjusting to the clients needs?
>
> If the client is that keen on a secure setup... then more than likely
> they'd be spending the money on additional hardware and operating
> licenses to split services and what not.
>
> The 'balanced way' is to stand it up with the wizards and 'then' you
> tweak. You get that box up to a known state and then you start adding
> your needs.
>
> As an example....I have yet to be convinced that naming a SBS box
> anything other than .local gives me any more choices for configuration
> than I already have. Again, we're dealing with a small
> business and for
> the vast majority of them, I'm not seeing that they benefit from
> deviation from the install routine.
>
> Once they are built... then yes, start building your own rule sets,
> adjusting whatever you'd like, but I guess I'm just not convinced that
> not using them is of benefit both in terms time spent to
> manually setup
> a SBS box and then to ensure it's been set up appropriately.
>
> Understand the wizards, but you'd be hard pressed to convince me that
> not using them provides any greater benefit, value for what
> you get and
> bang for the buck.
>
> Like someone said on the Focus on MS list... let's stop with the
> religious
> wars. These days a firewall runs on an operating system.
> One that can
> be secure or insecure depending on how you set it up.
>
> I would still argue that for that business owner, you stand
> up that SBS
> box with the defaults and then you adjust.
>
> Make no mistake about it those in the SBS world are still fighting the
> one nic/Sonicwall marketplace, but there are more and more folks that
> never installed ISA 2000 that are now looking at ISA 2004 with an open
> mind.
>
> In my opinion, the battle is now for my desktops... and my
> battle is for
> line of business apps that can't code worth a darn.
>
> There's a zero day IE exploit posted on www.incidents.org and
> folks are
> saying "quick run to Firefox". Uh.. how about we ensure that we are
> taking the long term view of moving our desktops to LUA, for
> now running
> with IE in high security or using Michael Howard's Drop My Rights, and
> then go beating up on vendors that can't code worth a darn.
>
> How about I ask again and all of us...including myself... start again
> with an open mind.
>
> Drop the stereotypes and assumptions and start fresh.
>
> How about we attempt to understand each others viewpoints and the
> marketplaces they are addressing?
>
> Susan
>
>
>
> Very well put!
>
> Joseph F. Danielsen,
> MCSA - Exchange Messaging Specialist, MCP Network Blade Inc.
> 49 Marcy Street
> Somerset, NJ 08873
> 732-213-0600
> www.networkblade.com
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Thomas W Shinder [mailto:tshinder@xxxxxxxxxxx]
> Sent: Monday, November 21, 2005 9:16 AM
> To: [ISAserver.org Discussion List]
> Subject: [isalist] RE: ISA on SBS webcast
>
> http://www.ISAserver.org
>
> Hi Amy,
>
> Indeed! Acutally, I was quite surprized by their overall low level of
> network awareness.
>
> That's why I was really getting into that SBS series on the
> ISAserver.org site and doing the analysis on what I thought
> was going on
> with the installation routine and explaning the meaning of the options
> to the folks. My take on things is that just 'cause someone
> doesn't know
> something doesn't mean he can't learn, and I wanted to make the
> opportunity available to learn about some interesting and important
> networking concepts, using the ISA firewall install and management as
> the framework.
>
> But then I hear that SBS is about running wizards and never deviating
> from them and the cr*ppy defaults they use, all for "supportability"
> reasons, and then end up dealing with a fraternity of folks
> like from a
> CM Kornbluth novel pounding on me for providing forbidden information.
>
> Who knows, I might go back into that space in the future.
> There's people
> like you, and Joseph, and heck ME who actually deploy this thing for
> people who aren't interested in being the lowest common denominator.
>
> Tom
>
> Thomas W Shinder, M.D.
> Site: www.isaserver.org
> Blog: http://spaces.msn.com/members/drisa/
> Book: http://tinyurl.com/3xqb7
> MVP -- ISA Firewalls
> **Who is John Galt?**
>
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Amy Babinchak [mailto:amy@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
> > Sent: Monday, November 21, 2005 7:38 AM
> > To: [ISAserver.org Discussion List]
> > Subject: [isalist] RE: ISA on SBS webcast
> >
> > http://www.ISAserver.org
> >
> > Let's just say that year before last when you graciously
> wrangled me a
>
> > ticket into SMBNation it opened my eyes. I heard plenty of
> pretty dumb
>
> > things about ISA that weekend and I thought to myself, where have
> > these people come from? Then I thought, hey I'm pretty
> smart! I didn't
>
> > know anyone cared about SBS but me. I wasn't quite as bad
> as my friend
>
> > Mike "the island" (last name withheld) but I wasn't aware
> that there
> > was such a tight SBS community. I came in completely
> innocent and left
>
> > completely appalled at the level of ISA ignorance.
> >
> > The tide has turned. There is a tremendous thirst for ISA knowledge
> > among SBS consultants right now.
> >
> > Amy
> >
> > Harbor Computer Services
> > Small Business Computer Specialists
> >
> > Client Blog: http://smalltechnotes.blogspot.com/
> > Tech Blog: http://isainsbs.blogspot.com/
> > Website: http://www.harborcomputerservices.net/
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Thomas W Shinder [mailto:tshinder@xxxxxxxxxxx]
> > Sent: Sunday, November 20, 2005 6:24 PM
> > To: [ISAserver.org Discussion List]
> > Subject: [isalist] RE: ISA on SBS webcast
> >
> > http://www.ISAserver.org
> >
> > Looks like Amy is a supporter of Jim Harrison's Blue Ribbon
> Campaign:
> >
> > http://www.msfirewall.org/isa2004/jimssbswork.htm
> >
> > Thomas W Shinder, M.D.
> > Site: www.isaserver.org
> > Blog: http://spaces.msn.com/members/drisa/
> > Book: http://tinyurl.com/3xqb7
> > MVP -- ISA Firewalls
> >
> >
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Susan Bradley, CPA aka Ebitz - SBS Rocks [MVP]
> > > [mailto:sbradcpa@xxxxxxxxxxx]
> > > Sent: Sunday, November 20, 2005 4:08 PM
> > > To: [ISAserver.org Discussion List]
> > > Subject: [isalist] ISA on SBS webcast
> > >
> > > http://www.ISAserver.org
> > >
> > > Amy Babinchak's ISA 2004 "taco talk" is now available for viewing:
> > > http://msmvps.com/bradley/archive/2005/11/20/76038.aspx
> > >
> > > Microsoft Office Live Meeting - View A Recording:
> > > https://www120.livemeeting.com/cc/winserver_usergroup/view?id=
> > > Q78FXW&pw=SqPq4%60P
> > >
> > >
> > > Live meeting recording thanks to the WinServer community
> group who
> > > also is bringing you www.theworkingnetwork.com
> > >
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