http://www.ISAserver.org
AAAAAaaaauuuuugggghhhhh!
Tony got to Timmy!
Intervention!!!!!!
:-)
-----Original Message-----
From: Thor (Hammer of God) [mailto:thor@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2005 1:01 AM
To: [ISAserver.org Discussion List]
Subject: [isalist] Re: Difference between MSDN version and RTM version
of ISA 2004
http://www.ISAserver.org
Actually, the key word was "caveat" used in conjunction with "many." The
use
of "development" would be second in emphasis.
And I said MCP's or Channel Partners (or anyone else who may buy or
qualify
for a Universal
Subscription). I didn't say MVP or MSD.
I shall elaborate:
The Universal Subscription does indeed allow some products to be used
for
production purposes. While normal production use is indeed prohibited,
the
acceptions are as follows (I've provided a link for reference):
http://msdn.microsoft.com/subscriptions/faq/default.aspx#licensing
<snip>
a.. One exception is that the MSDN Universal Subscription comes with one
license to Desktop Applications (typically on blue discs) such as
Microsoft
Office Professional Enterprise Edition 2003 (which includes Microsoft
Word,
Access, Excel, Outlook, PowerPoint, InfoPath, OneNote and Publisher),
Visio
Standard 2003, and Project Standard 2003 for business use directly
related
to the design, development, test, and/or demonstration of software
projects.
For example, you can use Project to manage a development project, use
Visio
to diagram your application, etc.
a.. In addition, one copy of Office Professional Enterprise Edition 2003
can
be used for general business use, unrelated to development and testing.
Again, only persons with an MSDN Universal Subscription license can use
these Microsoft Office products in this manner.
</snip>
Other programs not specifically listed but that may also be used in
production are Front Page 2003, MapPoint, Small Business Manager, and
even
Great Plains 7.5 (since the acquisition.)
In addition to the above allowance for use "directly related to the
design,
development, test, etc," my reference to some MSDN programs that may be
used
for "development" of applications is explained in the FAQ:
<snip>
a.. Can I use the Visual Studio product to create an executable file and
distribute this file for sale?
Yes. Applications, utilities, and executables you develop using Visual
Studio, Access, or Office Developer can be distributed to customers
royalty-free, pursuant to the terms of the corresponding End-User
License
Agreement (EULA). In addition, there are many redistributable components
included with Visual Studio, which you are welcome to incorporate into
your
applications and distribute for free pursuant to the terms of the Visual
Studio EULA.
Please note there is a royalty for Microsoft server products that are
distributed with applications. For more information see the Product
Integration Program.
a.. Can I use Office, Project, and Visio for development and testing of
applications?
Yes. Office Professional Enterprise Edition 2003, Project Standard and
Visio
Standard can be used for business use directly related to the design,
development, testing and demonstration phases of building applications.
In
addition, one copy of Office Professional Enterprise Edition 2003 can be
used for general business use by each licensed MSDN Universal
subscriber.
Project Professional 2003, Project Server 2003 and Microsoft Office
Project
Server 2003 Client Access License are not currently available for
business
purposes under the MSDN licensing agreement.
</snip>
So, simply put, you do indeed get a license to use a copy of the above
products included in the Universal MSDN kit to design, develop, and
distribute customized solutions to one's customer base- that's what I
meant
by "install the software in "production" environments when the
environment
exists to develop solutions for the company's clients."
Regarding support, it is based on the MSDN subscription type.
Personally, I
get 5 support incidents a year for free for whatever product I want (as
long
as it was in my kit.) Each incident is supported to its resolution,
regardless of how long it takes. The normal Universal MSDN kit includes
4,
but the same rules apply. So, if I load Exchange Server 2003 for
testing,
and something doesn't work properly, I can get full support of the issue
by
using one of my incidents. Same for SQL, Visual Basic, ISA, etc.
Your disappointed "customers" must have received a "free" or "bonus"
MSDN
subscription as part of another program, where, as you say, they do not
get
PSS. For instance, regarding support, the "kit" you get as an MCP does
not
include support. But purchased MSDN subscriptions do. See:
<snip>
MSDN Subscriptions in North America include technical support incidents
for
products that ship with an MSDN subscription.
a.. MSDN Universal includes four technical support incidents and
managed
newsgroup support.*
b.. MSDN Enterprise includes three technical support incidents and
managed
newsgroup support.
c.. MSDN Professional includes two technical support incidents and
managed
newsgroup support.
d.. MSDN Operating Systems includes two technical support incidents
and
managed newsgroup support.
MSDN subscribers outside North America, please visit MSDN Support
Options.
* Microsoft Certified Partners Subscribers receive access to MSDN public
newsgroups and additional technical support provided through Microsoft
for
Partners. Above incidents and newsgroup support are not included.
</snip>
Again, regarding the bits, I wasn't arguing... And my reply was more
towards
some of the earlier posts- I just wanted to point out that one should
not
use the term "MSDN" to describe product versions, as it is a
subscription-
one with many different levels and associated services.
Ni.
T
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Harrison" <Jim@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: "[ISAserver.org Discussion List]" <isalist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2005 10:13 PM
Subject: [isalist] Re: Difference between MSDN version and RTM version
of
ISA 2004
http://www.ISAserver.org
The key phrase in your missive was "development".
MSDN bits are not to be used to "serve your company", but to allow you
to work with the product to learn and develop your deployment /
add-on.
The EULA term "production" is not as you describe, where an MVP or MSD
is working towards a whitepaper / deployment solution, but where a
business is using it to serve their office web site / browsing needs.
I've had to disappoint more than one "customer" when they wanted to
"extend the timeout", or wanted to get PSS support for MSDN
subscriptions.
The support for MSDN is very limited and assumes that the subscriber
has
something more than a minimum of knowledge.
-----Original Message-----
From: Thor (Hammer of God) [mailto:thor@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2005 8:28 PM
To: [ISAserver.org Discussion List]
Subject: [isalist] Re: Difference between MSDN version and RTM version
of ISA 2004
http://www.ISAserver.org
Not to sound as if I disagree, but one should note that while
comparing
"MSDN" to "RTM" may seem analogous (in its true sense), they should
not
be
considered "identical."
MSDN is a subscription to products; RTM is a product version. The RTM
version will always be thus, while the bits on the MSDN subscription
are
updated to include slipstreamed service packs and hotfixes (like XP
PRO
SP1a
or SQL 2000 SP3) as they become available. In regard to ISA 2004,
whoever
said to "wait for the update" had it backwards- the RTM version was
available for general distribution far before it was published in the
MSDN.
The other poster who said not to use the MSDN bits for production, as
if
it
was not stable, un-supported, or in some way to always be assumed as
"beta,"
was also incorrect-- unless, of course, the version included in the
MSDN
subscription was a beta to begin with.
Also, there is a caveat to the "not supported on production servers"
EULA
for many of the platforms included in one's MSDN subscription: MCP's
or
Channel Partners (which I am) can use the volume licenses (based on
tier) to
install the software in "production" environments when the environment
exists to develop solutions for the company's clients.
Just had to add my .02....
T
----- Original Message -----
From: Jim Harrison
To: [ISAserver.org Discussion List]
Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2005 7:19 PM
Subject: [isalist] Re: Difference between MSDN version and RTM version
of
ISA 2004
http://www.ISAserver.org
MSDN version is not supported on production servers (part of the EULA
you
agree to when you install).
Functionally, they're identical.
-------------------------------------------------------
Jim Harrison
MCP(NT4, W2K), A+, Network+, PCG
http://isaserver.org/Jim_Harrison/
http://isatools.org
Read the help / books / articles!
-------------------------------------------------------
From: michel girgis [mailto:michel_girgis@xxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2005 16:18
To: [ISAserver.org Discussion List]
Subject: [isalist] Re: Difference between MSDN version and RTM version
of
ISA 2004
http://www.ISAserver.org
yes you should wait
tim S <tim724342@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
http://www.ISAserver.org
I was wondering if there is any difference between MSDN and RTM
release
of
ISA 2004.
I already setup the ISA 2004 using MSDN version and in the process of
applying for a license for the production environment. So I was
wondering
if I should wait until I get the RTM copy.
Thanks
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