RE: Auto Switching to SSL connection
- From: "Jim Harrison" <Jim@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: "[ISAserver.org Discussion List]" <isalist@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2004 11:23:46 -0800
CIL...
Jim Harrison
MCP(NT4, W2K), A+, Network+, PCG
http://isaserver.org/Jim_Harrison/
http://isatools.org
Read the help / books / articles!
-----Original Message-----
From: William Holmes [mailto:wtholmes@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Monday, December 20, 2004 9:23 AM
To: [ISAserver.org Discussion List]
Subject: [isalist] RE: Auto Switching to SSL connection
http://www.ISAserver.org
Hello,
I'm sorry but this doesn't make a lot of sense to me. In order to do
what I
am after I would need two rules for every site that I wish to use secure
authentication for.
[[Jim]] Not true; this only occurs where you have a conflict of
interest between protocol and authentication requirements.
ISA (rightly, IMHO) views authentication as a higher priority than
content delivery protocol.
If you want to have anonymous redirection, then your listener can't
force authentication.
If you want the content delivered to authenticated-only connections,
then apply authentication requirements at the rule, not the listener
If you want to allow anonymous redirection, you can't force
authentication at the listener level.
IOW, eat your cake or leave it on the counter.
Publish Rule #1 A rule that lives on an HTTP only listener that does not
require athentication that redirects to Rule#2
Publish Rule #2 A rule that lives on an HTTPS only listener and
requires
authentication.
It also requires two listeners when it should not (IMO) be necessary.
Two
Listeners mean two rules for each published site. One for SSL and one
without.
[[Jim]] Again; not true. All you need are two listeners; one anonymous
HTTP listener to redirect to the authenticating HTTPS listener. The web
publishing rule only uses the HTTPS listener.
This is extermemly cumbersome and increases the TCO of ISA-2004 when
used for
web publishing.
There appear to be two fundamental flaws in the design of web
publishing.
1. Microsoft saw fit to add the Notify HTTP users to use HTTPS instead.
Why
not just do the redirect to https (assuming the listener has been
configured
for https). Do not pester the user with a stupid error message. Just
transparently re-direct the user.
[[Jim]] HTTP standards; a good review of RFC 2616 and 2617 would be in
order here. W3C has also stated that they do not support any further
"extensions" to the HTTP protocol.
2. When a Web Publishing rule requires both authentication and SSL, SSL
should ALWAYS be applied first. Just like IIS does. On IIS if a page
requires
both SSL and Authentication SSL is always applied first. If you specify
http:// it will respond with HTTP Error 403.4 - Forbidden: SSL is
required to
view this resource. Entering https:// will eliminate the 403.4 and if
the
page requires authentication you will be prompted over the SSL channel.
[[Jim]] Again; you're confusing the rule with the listener. ISA 2004
allows you to separate the two so that you can have more granularity in
your policies.
On ISA if a publishing rule requires authentication and SSL you will
first be
required to authenticate over the clear channel and only then given the
error
message Error Code: 403 Forbidden This page msust be viewed over a
secure
channel (Secure Sockets Layer (SSL)). Contact the server administrator.
(12211). Unfortunately your credentials have just passed between the
browser
and the ISA server in the clear. IIS has it correct ISA has it wrong.
The first point is a nicity. The second is a necessity. I(SECURITY)A
server
should make every effort to be as secure as possible. If an
Administrator
specifies a web publishing rule require SSL that should be the fist
thing
applied when a rule matches. I think it should happen transparently (or
at
least that should be one choice) but even if there is some reasons that
it
should not happen transparetnly it should still be applied prior to any
further processing of a publishing rule.
I hope the Microsoft Developers are Listening.
[[Jim]] They were; that's why separate listeners are part of ISA 2004
feature set.
Quit trying to use it like it's ISA 2000...
Bill
-----Original Message-----
From: Jim Harrison [mailto:Jim@xxxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Saturday, December 18, 2004 12:09 PM
To: [ISAserver.org Discussion List]
Subject: [isalist] RE: Auto Switching to SSL connection
http://www.ISAserver.org
Create two listeners; one using HTTP (TCP:80) and the other using HTTPS
(TCP:443).
Set the HTTP listener to be anonymous and the SSL listener to use
authentication.
Uncheck "require authentication" on both.
Use your rules to determine what, if any authentication is required.
Jim Harrison
MCP(NT4, W2K), A+, Network+, PCG
http://isaserver.org/Jim_Harrison/
http://isatools.org
Read the help / books / articles!
-----Original Message-----
From: William Holmes [mailto:wtholmes@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Saturday, December 18, 2004 7:22 AM
To: [ISAserver.org Discussion List]
Subject: [isalist] RE: Auto Switching to SSL connection
http://www.ISAserver.org
Hello,
Thease are very handy but they don't do quite what I want. The problem
is
that ISA is still requesting a password before it will display the page
and
generate the error. I want to go to SSL prior to ISA prompting for a
password.
user requests http://myserver/securpage
redirect --> https://myserver/securepage
prompt for credentials.
What happens now:
user requests http://myserver/securepage
prompt for credentials
error is generated
the scripts you pointed me to re-direct -->
https://myserver/securepage
The other issue is that I would like to be able to give out direct links
things like http://myserver/securepage/foo/bar/ and have it first
redirected
to https://myserver/securepage/foo/bar.
The issue is that users who browse this site from and internal network
don't
get prompted for passwords. Those who browse from outside do. I want the
authentication handshake to be in SSL.
I am using Radius so the passwords between the client and the isa server
are
running in the clear unless I use ssl.
Any suggestions?
Thanks
Bill
-----Original Message-----
From: Jim Harrison [mailto:Jim@xxxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Saturday, December 18, 2004 1:02 AM
To: [ISAserver.org Discussion List]
Subject: [isalist] RE: Auto Switching to SSL connection
http://www.ISAserver.org
http://isatools.org/isa_redirects.zip includes two separate examples and
a
set of instructions on how to use each.
Jim Harrison
MCP(NT4, W2K), A+, Network+, PCG
http://isaserver.org/Jim_Harrison/
http://isatools.org
Read the help / books / articles!
-----Original Message-----
From: William Holmes [mailto:wtholmes@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Friday, December 17, 2004 8:49 PM
To: [ISAserver.org Discussion List]
Subject: [isalist] Auto Switching to SSL connection
http://www.ISAserver.org
Hello,
With ISA 2004 is there a way to configure a rule that will switch the
user to
ssl ? What I would like is requests for http://mysite.com/foo to be
swithced
to https://mysite.com/foo. I don't see any obvious way to do this. The
reason for doing this is that the publishing rule is setup for
authentication
and I obviously would like that to be secure. So I would like the SSL
switch
to take place before the authentication.
Thanks
Bill
William Holmes (MCP)
Department of Computer Science
310 Upson Hall
Cornell University
Ithaca, NY 14853
wtholmes@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
607 255-1757 (o) 607 227-6049 (c)
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