Hello, Lets start with by second point below: If a rule requires SSL .AND. Authentication SSL should Always be applied first. Please give me a scenario where this should not be true. IIS always does SSL first followed by Authentication. Given a Listener that can do both open connections and ssl connections ISA does Authentication first followed by SSL. I would love an explanation on this decision. Now moving on: An ISA 2004 Listener supports both http and https simultaneously. If I don't need the granularity your talking of (which I am really not sure what it could do for me anyway); Why should I have the overhead of two publishing rules for each site. That doubles the maintenance of given rule. I don't see what this buys me other than increased complexity. Finally in my case having two listeners doesn't even solve the problem I wish to solve. I still need to have a re-direct. It's a real simple 1 to 1 redirect http://* -> https://* to be sure but in order to have it first re-direct to https:// I need to setup a new listener that will listen on http: and the intelligently re-direct to https: on another listener. Doable but cumbersome. As they stand neither of the the html pages presented in the isa_redirects.zip file will acomplish a genereic redirect form http://mysite/secureArea/* to https://mysite/secureArea/*. Bill -----Original Message----- From: Thomas W Shinder [mailto:tshinder@xxxxxxxxxxx] Sent: Monday, December 20, 2004 12:33 PM To: [ISAserver.org Discussion List] Subject: [isalist] RE: Auto Switching to SSL connection http://www.ISAserver.org Hi William, Why not create two listeners? That was one of the great improvements in the new ISA firewal and its served me very well in allowing me to customize the auth and security requirements in a more granular fashsion. The ISA Server 2000 method was a PIA, as the same settings were applied to SSL and non-SSL. NOT good! Tom www.isaserver.org/shinder Tom and Deb Shinder's Configuring ISA Server 2004 http://tinyurl.com/3xqb7 MVP -- ISA Firewalls -----Original Message----- From: William Holmes [mailto:wtholmes@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx] Sent: Monday, December 20, 2004 11:23 AM To: [ISAserver.org Discussion List] Subject: [isalist] RE: Auto Switching to SSL connection http://www.ISAserver.org Hello, I'm sorry but this doesn't make a lot of sense to me. In order to do what I am after I would need two rules for every site that I wish to use secure authentication for. Publish Rule #1 A rule that lives on an HTTP only listener that does not require athentication that redirects to Rule#2 Publish Rule #2 A rule that lives on an HTTPS only listener and requires authentication. It also requires two listeners when it should not (IMO) be necessary. Two Listeners mean two rules for each published site. One for SSL and one without. This is extermemly cumbersome and increases the TCO of ISA-2004 when used for web publishing. There appear to be two fundamental flaws in the design of web publishing. 1. Microsoft saw fit to add the Notify HTTP users to use HTTPS instead. Why not just do the redirect to https (assuming the listener has been configured for https). Do not pester the user with a stupid error message. Just transparently re-direct the user. 2. When a Web Publishing rule requires both authentication and SSL, SSL should ALWAYS be applied first. Just like IIS does. On IIS if a page requires both SSL and Authentication SSL is always applied first. If you specify http:// it will respond with HTTP Error 403.4 - Forbidden: SSL is required to view this resource. Entering https:// will eliminate the 403.4 and if the page requires authentication you will be prompted over the SSL channel. On ISA if a publishing rule requires authentication and SSL you will first be required to authenticate over the clear channel and only then given the error message Error Code: 403 Forbidden This page msust be viewed over a secure channel (Secure Sockets Layer (SSL)). Contact the server administrator. (12211). Unfortunately your credentials have just passed between the browser and the ISA server in the clear. IIS has it correct ISA has it wrong. The first point is a nicity. The second is a necessity. I(SECURITY)A server should make every effort to be as secure as possible. If an Administrator specifies a web publishing rule require SSL that should be the fist thing applied when a rule matches. I think it should happen transparently (or at least that should be one choice) but even if there is some reasons that it should not happen transparetnly it should still be applied prior to any further processing of a publishing rule. I hope the Microsoft Developers are Listening. Bill -----Original Message----- From: Jim Harrison [mailto:Jim@xxxxxxxxxxxx] Sent: Saturday, December 18, 2004 12:09 PM To: [ISAserver.org Discussion List] Subject: [isalist] RE: Auto Switching to SSL connection http://www.ISAserver.org Create two listeners; one using HTTP (TCP:80) and the other using HTTPS (TCP:443). Set the HTTP listener to be anonymous and the SSL listener to use authentication. Uncheck "require authentication" on both. Use your rules to determine what, if any authentication is required. Jim Harrison MCP(NT4, W2K), A+, Network+, PCG http://isaserver.org/Jim_Harrison/ http://isatools.org Read the help / books / articles! -----Original Message----- From: William Holmes [mailto:wtholmes@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx] Sent: Saturday, December 18, 2004 7:22 AM To: [ISAserver.org Discussion List] Subject: [isalist] RE: Auto Switching to SSL connection http://www.ISAserver.org Hello, Thease are very handy but they don't do quite what I want. The problem is that ISA is still requesting a password before it will display the page and generate the error. I want to go to SSL prior to ISA prompting for a password. user requests http://myserver/securpage redirect --> https://myserver/securepage prompt for credentials. What happens now: user requests http://myserver/securepage prompt for credentials error is generated the scripts you pointed me to re-direct --> https://myserver/securepage The other issue is that I would like to be able to give out direct links things like http://myserver/securepage/foo/bar/ and have it first redirected to https://myserver/securepage/foo/bar. The issue is that users who browse this site from and internal network don't get prompted for passwords. Those who browse from outside do. I want the authentication handshake to be in SSL. I am using Radius so the passwords between the client and the isa server are running in the clear unless I use ssl. Any suggestions? Thanks Bill -----Original Message----- From: Jim Harrison [mailto:Jim@xxxxxxxxxxxx] Sent: Saturday, December 18, 2004 1:02 AM To: [ISAserver.org Discussion List] Subject: [isalist] RE: Auto Switching to SSL connection http://www.ISAserver.org http://isatools.org/isa_redirects.zip includes two separate examples and a set of instructions on how to use each. Jim Harrison MCP(NT4, W2K), A+, Network+, PCG http://isaserver.org/Jim_Harrison/ http://isatools.org Read the help / books / articles! -----Original Message----- From: William Holmes [mailto:wtholmes@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx] Sent: Friday, December 17, 2004 8:49 PM To: [ISAserver.org Discussion List] Subject: [isalist] Auto Switching to SSL connection http://www.ISAserver.org Hello, With ISA 2004 is there a way to configure a rule that will switch the user to ssl ? What I would like is requests for http://mysite.com/foo to be swithced to https://mysite.com/foo. I don't see any obvious way to do this. The reason for doing this is that the publishing rule is setup for authentication and I obviously would like that to be secure. So I would like the SSL switch to take place before the authentication. Thanks Bill William Holmes (MCP) Department of Computer Science 310 Upson Hall Cornell University Ithaca, NY 14853 wtholmes@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx 607 255-1757 (o) 607 227-6049 (c) ------------------------------------------------------ List Archives: http://www.webelists.com/cgi/lyris.pl?enter=isalist ISA Server Newsletter: http://www.isaserver.org/pages/newsletter.asp ISA Server FAQ: http://www.isaserver.org/pages/larticle.asp?type=FAQ ------------------------------------------------------ Other Internet Software Marketing Sites: World of Windows Networking: http://www.windowsnetworking.com Leading Network Software Directory: http://www.serverfiles.com No.1 Exchange Server Resource Site: http://www.msexchange.org Windows Security Resource Site: http://www.windowsecurity.com/ Network Security Library: http://www.secinf.net/ Windows 2000/NT Fax Solutions: http://www.ntfaxfaq.com ------------------------------------------------------ You are currently subscribed to this ISAserver.org Discussion 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