[ilug-cal-website] Re: [Ilug-cal-discuss] [**OT**]The ilug-cal.info website & skytrain - caution suggested

  • From: Ashwin Mansinghka <ashwin_man@xxxxxxxxx>
  • To: me@xxxxxxxxxxx, ilug-cal-website@xxxxxxxxxxxxx, pksharmakolkata@xxxxxxxxxxx, pk@xxxxxxxxxxx, jpm.nina@xxxxxxxxx, ssinghi@xxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2006 05:25:23 -0700 (PDT)

Dear Soumya,

Quickly convey, it was a joke.....or risk 100% burns
due to extreme 
flaming....... :)

Anyway, I am always on listening mode on this list, so
the replies 
directly to you... see below.

You can choose to post the email to list if you

Soumyanath Chatterjee wrote:
> Sorry for this absolutely Off topic post.
> A few days ago, I was watching a documentory on Sky
Train. For those
> who are wondering what is sky train; it is a train
line from Western
> Chaina to Tibet. It is considered to be a
engineering marvel as it
> travels at a height of over 4000 ft, requiring
presurized cabins and
> supply oxygen.
Well, pressurized cabins is an old technology and
nothing so great about 
it......... Passenger jets, cold storage bogies etc.
all one has to do 
is just put it for train with passenger seats...
Basically, a glorified 
interiors designer's / engineers work, to attract the
attention of the 
>  Needless to say, engines thay pull the train has no
> parallel in world
Again overly glorified way of conveying things, what
we need to 
understand is how steep the gradient is and what is
the power required. 
Please check the information provided by the Chinese
(if you can find) 
and compare if the gradient is steeper compared to our
decades old 
Mumbai (sea level) to Karjat / Kasara (Westen Ghat) in
2:30 hours trip 
where Central Railway runs the local trains as well as
Diesel engines 
with long length of bogies on long distance passenger
trains on a daily 
basis over packed with humanity (load). The question
to ask is X ft to 
4000ft over what distance and speed and the value of X
and therefore the 
steepness assessement and therefore the power required
by the engines. 
Maybe the Chinese first time tried to do something in
real high tech. 
and were so overwhelmed that they had to shout the
world over.
>  and much of line was laid on snow, which melts in
> day time and freezes in night.
Again the same fallacy.....lines are not on snow per
say, they  had to 
work on soil which gets affected by a temperature
change of X degrees 
over a 24 hours period. Now, please do try to find and
assess what is 
the freezing point of water and melting point of snow
and also the 
latent heat involved. Thereafter, please also check
similarly the 
temperature variation both in summers and winters in
our our very own 
Rajasthan and Simla and Nilgiris and Darjeeling. What
is required is 
high carbon steel and regular replacement of rails and
tracking. No big 
deal again........maybe for chinese it is and for a
those few who are 
overawed by the chinese propaganda.
> All these were new technology, never before tried.
It is a long track
> over 3000Km long taking about 24Hrs to travel. There
was also a small
> mention - the project started in 2001 and completed
in July 2006.
Beg your pardon... there is nothing new about it.
Expecting new in 
technology from chinese is expecting the race of
suddenly turning into "DEVELOPERS of the CENTURY".....
come on beat it 
and see through the propaganda please.

Tracking 3000 Kms over 5 years in open land..... they
are worse than our 
own home grown variety of communists....Anyway,
building a train line 
from one country China to another county Tibet should
be having such 
lengths... nothing wonderful about it..... Maybe the
gauge conversion 
work done in India over working network without
affecting traffic should 
be taken up as an example to study / implement the
world over..... what 
do you say......

> They had to overcome many hurdle, which were not
thought during
> planning of the project. The team definately had to
evaluate many
> options and selected one of them.
Oh sure, what do you expect the pirates to
do......plan....... What a 
joke..... HA HA HA HAH AHHHH...........so they had to
actually do a lot 
of things over and over again (evaluate in other
> What I wonder:
> Was those choice about nitty-gritty of
implementation was demoratically done?
The objective of the having this rail link is to
subjugate a race and 
country and you expect democracy has any place in this
context. This 
rail link is the link to disaster for a generation of
Tibetans to come, 
who will vanish from the face of earth before they are
> Was the issue of which shovel to use for cutting the
ice was more
> important than where to lay the line?
Not at all, the issue was which man to kill and which
land to exploit, 
so the Chinese chose Tibet and Tibetans. So what do
you have to say 
about that ....?
> Was the team lost time and energy in deciding who
will contol kitchen
> instead of how to lay the line?
Again not at all, they ate all the food meant for
Tibetans all the time. 
Ask a  Tibetan who came to India between 1950 to 1970
and even 
now.....and he/she will answer the question about the
kitchen control by 
> Was the name of team more important discussion on
meeting the project deadline?
Never, the team is very well known the world over Red
Army and Communist 
China. Whether famous or infamous you decide and take
> I can only wonder, because I have never seen such
Are you communist ...? No probs with that.....if you
are an Indian and 
still never heard or seen better achievement in your
very own country 
then you are probably a Chinese Communist......then it
> What I
> see is in my example of ilug-cal site is:
> Hardly any post on what to put up in the site, in
contrast to massive
> mails on which CMS to use.
> Very knowledgeble and highly technical discussion in
how many hops the
> net traffic takes, in contrast to what does one see
once he reach at
> the site.
> Very heated discussion on who will control the site
and pull the
> strings, in contrast to who many people outside the
ilug-cal ghetto
> has visited the site and cares a hoot about the
This is easily possible from the lens that you are
looking at the 
things.... Ever heard of the word R&D, chinese hardly
do anything of the 
sort so .... they end up copying quickly and
rapidly......so these 
issues / thoughts never occur to them....
> Grand magnanimity of offering to host the site
(costs about Rs. 300
> per anum) shared with some ones space. In contrast
to what value the
> site adds to the society.....
Well we have seen what has happened to ilug-cal.org.
hosted by a non 
Indian, not anywhere related to the linux related
activities  of the 
city of Kolkata. Controlled / maintained by a few of
our own at his 

Compare the above to the complete end to end resource
offered by an 
individual not only for site hosting, free bandwidth
and meeting place 
and coffee on the house, but as a whole something
which has effectively 
to put some focus and life back into the ILUG-CAL that
we sometimes 
identify ourselves with.
> I wonder! What will hapen if we, ilug-cal team, is
given the
> responsibility for the Chinese sky plane....
That is too insignificant a thing to even compare as
to what we have 
already achieved.
> Anyway, China is a different country, let us be
proud to be Indian and
> be proud citizen of the city that has produced 5
Nobel Lauriets. Amen!
Yes, this is where you have saved yourself..........
Best of Lucks.

with Regards,
> (Donning my nuke proof jacket, other mails have not
been trimmed to
> keep context of the mail in perspective to the
motivated reader)
> --
> Regards
> Soumyanath Chatterjee
> http://www.soumya.name
> On 9/4/06, Arindam Basu <arinbasu99@xxxxxxxxx>
>> Hi Suren and Mani:
>> I think it's fair to be minimalist as you design
>> website and then scale up. As my old professor used
>> say, keep things KISS (_k_eep _i_t _s_hort and
>> _s_imple) and SOCO (_S_ingle _O_verriding
>> _C_ommunication _O_bjective).
>> I think as with research papers and
>> communications, it applies to designing group
>> as well.
>> Go figure.
>> Best,
>> Arin Basu
>> --- Surendra Singhi <ssinghi@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>> Hi Arindam,
>>> Thanks for the feedback. The admin (read geeks)
>>> have setup the website,
>>> and most of the things are now up and running.
>>> we need now is some
>>> editor, who can help us organize things and
>>> a better face to the
>>> public.
>>> We will try to work on the points which you and
>>> Sankarshan mentioned, but
>>> we are always going to be doing catching up job,
>>> unless someone more capable
>>> volunteers to help (can contact off list).
>>> Regards,
>>> Surendra Singhi
>>> Arindam Basu <arinbasu99@xxxxxxxxx> writes:
>>>> I was checking out the ilug-cal.info website.
>>>> Questions:
>>>> * Why is the "template chooser" added to the
>>> website
>>>> home page? Who needs that?
>>>> * For the home page (and indeed other pages),
>>> links
>>>> link back to the same page. This is confusing,
>>> I
>>>> wonder why was that done?
>>>> * Also, as I navigate deeper down the home page
>>> (say
>>>> move from home page to "news" page), I expect the
>>>> navigation panel to reflect that the pages have
>>>> changed. But that does not happen. Confusing,
>>> again.
>>>> Then, why did the web designer add a navigation
>>> panel
>>>> at all if it is not meant to be informative or be
>>>> used?
>>>> * There are 27 links in the front page in all,
>>> some
>>>> duplicated at different parts of the page. Why?
>>> What
>>>> are all the links doing here? Are they all
>>> absolutely
>>>> necessary?
>>>> * Why is there no description of what or who
>>> ilug-cal
>>>> is or are? Is it assumed that only people
>>> associated
>>>> with ilug-cal or ilug or linux will visit this
>>>> website?
>>>> * Why is no link added to enable a visitor to
>>> learn
>>>> more about  (subscribe/unsubscribe/read online)
>>> the
>>>> mailing list? In fact, no information about the
>>>> mailing list is included in the website. Why is
>>> this
>>>> information omitted?
>>>> * Why does the "chat-log" cover the main
>>> information
>>>> presentation area of the home page? The chat log
>>> does
>>>> not seem to contain any useful information abot
>>> the
>>>> group. It's ugly to look at, very verbose, and
>>>> frankly, portrays the group at a very poor light.
>>> Does
>>>> it absolutely need to be there?
>>>> * What is the purpose of this website?
>>>> I hope by posting these questions to the mailing
>>> list,
>>>> I do not offend anyone. These questions are not
>>> meant
>>>> to be negative criticisms. I want to learn more
>>> about
>>>> the website and the idea behind it.
>>>> Best,
>>>> Arin Basu
> _______________________________________________
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> Ilug-cal-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

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  • » [ilug-cal-website] Re: [Ilug-cal-discuss] [**OT**]The ilug-cal.info website & skytrain - caution suggested