Hey Richard, Ok, so you also use a title block to identify the films. I'm sure it's made up of lines and text. So whether you use a bounding box or photoplot outline to include this, the lines/text still come out as negative, right? I don't see any way around this, so it's either put up with the lines/text as negative or go to positive inner planes. For now, I'm going to put off the decision and stick with 274D (where even with the film defined as negative, the lines/text of the title block come out positive). Thanks for the reply! Gary Gary E. MacIndoe PCB Design Engineer Fort Collins, Colorado amd.com gary.macindoe@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Message----- From: icu-pcb-forum-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:icu-pcb-forum-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of richard moffat Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2008 5:28 PM To: icu-pcb-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [PCB_FORUM] Re: RS-274X Hi We use 274X, with title boxes on all layers. Title blocks may be rare in the industry (I don't know) but I think they're important. We ended up writing a script to change the photoplot outline for all negative/positive layers, generate what's necessary, and then back again, on the "Generate All" button. Works really well, but better gerber generation should have been there in Allegro the first place. Many people still use Gerber (as opposed to ODB++) for various reasons. It would still be a reasonable ask to have Cadence implement something to fix this. Cheers, Richard __________________________ Richard Moffat PCB Specialist Engineer Allied Telesis Labs ph. +64 (3) 3393000 richard.moffat@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx >>> On 8/05/2008 at 10:24 a.m., in message >>> <C457DF91B793174299A7B391C368EAD55FBFDDDD@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, >>> <george.h.patrick@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: That's him :) Haven't seen hide nor hair of him since he retired. Unfortunately, that's right. All positive layers come out as negative images if the film control is set for a negative film. Doesn't seem to me that it would be too difficult for Cadence to add an additional composite additive positive sub-layer to the gerber file in if you have a positive layer selected for a negative film control, but they have never done it (unless it's in 16, I haven't tested for that). But it is probably no bang for the buck, I think it is increasingly rare to have title blocks and such on films anyway. -- George Patrick Tektronix, Inc. Central Engineering, EDS Applications Support P.O. Box 500, M/S 39-512 Beaverton, OR 97077-0001 Å 503-627-5272 (voice) Æ 503-627-5587 (fax) http://www.tektronix.com http://www.pcb-designer.com "Off-Grid and Proud of it!" -----Original Message----- From: icu-pcb-forum-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:icu-pcb-forum-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Macindoe, Gary Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2008 14:10 To: icu-pcb-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [PCB_FORUM] Re: RS-274X Hey George, By predecessor, I bet you mean Don Gillispie (did I spell his last name correctly?). How's Don doing by the way? I worked with him (actually he supported us in Redmond) for some years at Tek. I know about the photoplot outline, I used to use one just outside of the drawing title block. So either way, with 274X output, everything becomes negative, right? Thanks for the reply. Regards, Gary Gary E. MacIndoe PCB Design Engineer Fort Collins, Colorado amd.com gary.macindoe@xxxxxxx From: icu-pcb-forum-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:icu-pcb-forum-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of george.h.patrick@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2008 2:59 PM To: icu-pcb-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [PCB_FORUM] Re: RS-274X Gary: You can also put a photoplot outline area around the stuff you want visible (Setup >Areas > Photoplot Outline) to get the same effect. If you do NOT have this area, it ignores anything outside the board outline (unless you set the bounding box). My predecessor put in an issue about this when we went to RS-274x back 6-7 years ago. They put it in the future-features pile (otherwise known as the round file) and I guess it remains there to this day. I have never attempted to resubmit it. -- George Patrick Tektronix, Inc. Central Engineering, EDS Applications Support P.O. Box 500, M/S 39-512 Beaverton, OR 97077-0001 Å 503-627-5272 (voice) Æ 503-627-5587 (fax) http://www.tektronix.com http://www.pcb-designer.com "Off-Grid and Proud of it!" -----Original Message----- From: icu-pcb-forum-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:icu-pcb-forum-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Macindoe, Gary Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2008 13:43 To: icu-pcb-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [PCB_FORUM] Re: RS-274X Hey man, Thanks for the idea. Yeah, it sort of worked. I set the Bounding Box to 2100 (mils). The gerber for this negative layer now included my targets and film description box, but they are negative. With RS-274D, the negative layers still had the lines and text of the targets/film description box (of course outside of the board outline) as positive. Thanks again, this may be better than not getting them at all if I do indeed decide to go to 274X. Regards, Gary Gary E. MacIndoe PCB Design Engineer Fort Collins, Colorado amd.com gary.macindoe@xxxxxxx From: icu-pcb-forum-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:icu-pcb-forum-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Man Tran Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2008 2:14 PM To: icu-pcb-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [PCB_FORUM] Re: RS-274X Gary, Try to set Shape Bounding Box in Artwork Control Form and make sure this number (measure from board's outline) large enough to cover any lines & text that you want to show. -man From: icu-pcb-forum-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:icu-pcb-forum-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Macindoe, Gary Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2008 1:08 PM To: icu-pcb-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [PCB_FORUM] RS-274X Hey guys, Allegro PCB 15.5.1, Expert license, Windows XP Pro Ok, RS-274X question. I like negative inner planes, and include targets (lines) and a film description box (lines and text) below the board. I notice that when I gerber out negative plane film in RS-274X format, I don't get the targets (lines) nor the film box (lines and text). I see the same results whether I load the gerbers into an Allegro database or CAM350. Is there any way to get the lines and text on a negative film with RS-274X? Thanks for any help! Gary Gary E. MacIndoe PCB Design Engineer Fort Collins, Colorado amd.com gary.macindoe@xxxxxxx NOTICE: This message contains privileged and confidential information intended only for the use of the addressee named above. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that you must not disseminate, copy or take any action in reliance on it. If you have received this message in error please notify Allied Telesis Labs Ltd immediately. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender has the authority to issue and specifically states them to be the views of Allied Telesis Labs.