[ibis-macro] Re: Yet another problem with Usage Out
- From: "Muranyi, Arpad" <Arpad_Muranyi@xxxxxxxxxx>
- To: "ibis-macro@xxxxxxxxxxxxx" <ibis-macro@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2011 05:20:42 +0000
Bob's email below made me realize that my terminology
was probably incorrect in all my previous emails in
these threads. I was using "single valued" parameters
without thinking about some of those jitter parameters
which come with multiple numbers. In my mind I was
only distinguishing between Value, Default vs. Range,
List, Increment, Steps. In a loser sense those mentioned
by Bob could also be considered as "single valued"
parameters, because those numbers belong together
forming closely related sets, similar to the way Real
and Imaginary belong together forming a single complex
number.
Anyway, I don't want to belabor this, I just wanted to
acknowledge that I overlooked them... I don't think it
makes a difference in the main topic of the discussion.
Thanks,
Arpad
========================================================
From: ibis-macro-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ibis-macro-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of Bob Ross
Sent: Friday, December 16, 2011 5:44 PM
To: msteinb@xxxxxxxxxx; ibis-macro@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [ibis-macro] Re: Yet another problem with Usage Out
Mike:
I do not know the answer in IBIS 5.0, but with BIRD132
http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/birds/bird132.txt
the your line below could be specified in the .ami file as a
one-row Table:
Sent to Executable Model:
(froboz(grue -1.3e9 0 -4.2e9 0))
-------
AMI File:
(froboz
(grue (Usage In) (Type Float)
(Table
(Labels "number1" "number2" "number3" "number4")
(-1.3e9 0 -4.2e9 0)
)
)
)
The Labels line is optional and is not transmitted.
The new Table syntax supports multi-line Tables and also
individual Type entries for each column, as shown in BIRD132
for all Usage choices.
We also support predefined two- and tree-valued Formats
(Gaussian, Dual-Dirac and DjRj), and the <data> for these
parameter would be two or three numbers according to the
proper definition of " leaf" in the Section 10 BNF as
(<parameter name> <value list>) as in your question.
Bob
From: ibis-macro-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:ibis-macro-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
[mailto:ibis-macro-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]<mailto:[mailto:ibis-macro-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]>
On Behalf Of Mike Steinberger
Sent: Friday, December 16, 2011 1:18 PM
To: ibis-macro@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:ibis-macro@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [ibis-macro] Re: Yet another problem with Usage Out
Arpad-
When we have a parameter of Usage In and Format List, what do we send in to the
model through ami_parameters_in? Do we send a single value or do we send the
entire list? We send in a single value selected from the list. There's no
reason to suppose that a model sending a value back would do anything else. It
will send back a single value from the list.
Consider, however, that currently we have no way to declare an array-type value
in an AMI file. That makes the array value syntax we put into the parameter
string definition considerably less useful. We have run into this problem a
number of times in the work we've done; and the solution we came up with is not
at all pretty.
For example, suppose I want the following parameter string sent into the model:
(froboz(grue -1.3e9 0 -4.2e9 0))
According to IBIS 5.0, that's a valid parameter string syntax. The parameter
grue has a value which is an array of floating point numbers.
What can I put in an AMI file that would tell the EDA tool to generate this
parameter string?
Thanks.
Mike S.
On 12/16/2011 01:46 PM, Muranyi, Arpad wrote:
Hello everyone,
In the process of trying to make heads and tails
of this Usage Out discussion, I discovered another
interesting situation with the Usage Out parameters.
Let's assume that the .ami file contains this
perfectly legal parameter definition:
(MyExample
(Description "Example")
(Reserved_Parameters
(MyRterm
(Usage Out)
(Type Integer)
(List 100 80 90 110 120)
(Default -1)
(Description "Illustration")
)
)
)
What is the model supposed to return? A single
value or multiple values? According to BIRD 127.4
the AMI_parameters_in/out strings can only contain
"leaf/value pairs", i.e. a single value for each
parameter name (or a Table according to BIRD 132).
|**** 2) the AMI Parameter branches Usage Out or Usage InOut are
|**** returned as leaf/value pairs in the AMI_parameters_out
|**** string.
If that is true, why would one define a Usage Out
parameter as anything else but Value, Default or Table?
If the purpose of defining a Usage Out parameter as
a List, for example, would be to tell the EDA tool
that the returned value from the Model is a List,
we are out of luck, since lists can't be passed
through the AMI_parameters_out strings.
It seems to me that we have another conflict here.
To remove this conflict we should not allow anything
else but Value, Default, or Table for Usage Out
parameters, or figure out a way to pass more than
just "leaf/value pairs" through the parameter string.
Comments, questions, suggestions welcome.
Thanks,
Arpad
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