Mike, Your interpretation of Default seems to be that the EDA tool or the model can use the value provided by Default until a new value replaces it. My interpretation is different from this, because the spec or any BIRDs do not say anything about that. The way I read the spec and BIRDs is that the Default is an aid in making a selection for multi valued parameters in the .ami file in the absence of user selection, and nothing more. Once this selection is done, the value is passed to the EDA tool or the AMI model as THE value. I don't see anything in the spec that says anything about this value being an initial condition or default for any algorithmic purposes inside the EDA tool or the AMI model. Do you? The only thing I see in the spec is that for Usage InOut the EDA tool passes something to the AMI model and the AMI model can return something different is it so pleases. But I don't see anything about initializing anything in the EDA tool... Thanks, Arpad ======================================================= From: ibis-macro-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ibis-macro-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Mike Steinberger Sent: Friday, December 16, 2011 1:38 PM To: ibis-macro@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [ibis-macro] Re: Usage Out syntax rules Arpad- That's exactly what a lot of existing models do. In doing that, they replace any Default values for Usage Out parameters that might have been declared in an AMI file. Thus, "Default" means the same thing for Usage Out parameters as it does for all other parameters- it's the value that can be used until another value is selected. This is all completely clear and is working perfectly well. We don't need any new rules in this area. Mike S. On 12/16/2011 01:29 PM, Muranyi, Arpad wrote: The only thing I can imagine is that the model generates the value internally and then it outputs it in the AMI_parameters_out argument. Arpad ============================================= From: ibis-macro-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:ibis-macro-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> [mailto:ibis-macro-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Mike Steinberger Sent: Friday, December 16, 2011 1:05 PM To: ibis-macro@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:ibis-macro@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Subject: [ibis-macro] Re: Usage Out syntax rules Arpad- A model outputs parameters of Usage Out in the variable ami_parameters_out. Where do you think the model gets the values it puts in ami_parameters_out? Mike S. On 12/16/2011 12:57 PM, Muranyi, Arpad wrote: Mike, That's news to me... Could you back this up from the spec or any BIRDs? Common sense tells me that you can only make a selection if you have multiple items to pick from. First, with Usage Out parameters the EDA tool doesn't anything into the AMI model, so the model has nothing to select from. Second, even if we pretend that a Usage Out parameter supposed to be treated as if it was Usage InOut, where the EDA tool passes something to the model and the model returns something in response, when it comes to multi valued parameters, such as Range, List, Increment and Steps, the EDA tool can only pass one value to the AMI model in the AMI_parameters_in string, so the model can still not make a selection from multiple items. (The only way a model can get multiple values is through Table...). This is based on BIRD 127.4: |* The EDA tool must process the content of the .ami file so that |* 1) the 'Reserved_Parameters' and 'Model_Specific' branch |* names and their associated open and close parentheses "()" |* are not included in the AMI_parameters_in string, and |* 2) the AMI Parameter branches with Usage In or Usage InOut |* are converted to leaf/value pairs for the AMI_parameters_in |* string, possibly incorporating user selections. In this |* conversion each AMI parameter branch name becomes a leaf |* name in the AMI_parameters_in string and each leaf name |* is followed by a white space, a value and a closing |* parentheses ")". Note: #1) that "The EDA tool must process the content of the .ami file", which indicates to me that the selection of one value from multi valued parameters is done by the tool, not the model. #2) that "each leaf name is followed by a white space, a value" where value is singular, so the model has nothing to select from. #3) the phrase "possibly incorporating user selections", indicates to me that the multi valued parameters are reduced to a single value either by the user making a selection or the rules revolving around using <typ> or Default. This is why Default to me refers to the selection mechanism and not to initializing variables in the EDA tool and/or the AMI model. Your understanding or interpretation of the spec and BIRDs seems to be quite different from the way I read them... Thanks, Arpad ============================================================ From: ibis-macro-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:ibis-macro-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> [mailto:ibis-macro-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Mike Steinberger Sent: Friday, December 16, 2011 12:33 PM To: ibis-macro@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:ibis-macro@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Subject: [ibis-macro] Re: Usage Out syntax rules Arpad- The model makes the selection for parameters of Usage Out. Mike S.