[ibis-macro] Re: Question on dependency tables.
- From: David Banas <DBanas@xxxxxxxxxx>
- To: 'Walter Katz' <wkatz@xxxxxxxxxx>, "'Arpad_Muranyi@xxxxxxxxxx'" <Arpad_Muranyi@xxxxxxxxxx>, 'IBIS-ATM' <ibis-macro@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2012 09:47:22 -0800
That makes sense to me, as long as the Dependency Table is able to "output" all
of the other AMI parameters, which the user would've otherwise had to select
manually.
Will we have time to discuss this at today's meeting? I'd like to hear what
other people think about this.
-db
From: Walter Katz [mailto:wkatz@xxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2012 9:44 AM
To: David Banas; Arpad_Muranyi@xxxxxxxxxx; 'IBIS-ATM'
Subject: RE: [ibis-macro] Re: Question on dependency tables.
David,
In my scenario, the user selects the [Model] from the [Model Selector], the EDA
tool uses the .ami file from that [Model]. The EDA tool knows the [Model] and
uses that [Model] in the Dependency Table.
Walter
From: ibis-macro-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:ibis-macro-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
[mailto:ibis-macro-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of David Banas
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2012 12:04 PM
To: 'Arpad_Muranyi@xxxxxxxxxx'; 'IBIS-ATM'
Subject: [ibis-macro] Re: Question on dependency tables.
So, at the time the EDA tool is processing the dependency table, does the value
of the intrinsic "[Model]" parameter point to the [Model Selector] section of
the IBIS file, or to the actual model selected from that section by the user?
This difference is important, I think.
-db
From: ibis-macro-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:ibis-macro-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
[mailto:ibis-macro-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Muranyi, Arpad
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2012 8:59 AM
To: 'IBIS-ATM'
Subject: [ibis-macro] Re: Question on dependency tables.
Walter, David,
I apologize if I caused confusion with my previous
response to this thread. I forgot that BIRD 150
has provisions for referencing [Model] names.
Quoting from the bottom of the latest draft of
BIRD 150:
"[Model]" is an intrinsic AMI parameter of Type String and Usage Info that can
be used to create an input column to declare which IBIS [Model] each row refers
to in a Dependency Table.
I think this will do what David needs, even though
not by using index values to the [Model Selector]
keyword (as I suggested in my previous reply).
Thanks,
Arpad
===================================================
From: David Banas [mailto:DBanas@xxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2012 10:51 AM
To: 'Walter Katz'; Muranyi, Arpad; 'IBIS-ATM'
Subject: RE: [ibis-macro] Re: Question on dependency tables.
So I you requesting that the model selected by the user from the list in the
[Model Selector] control how parameters are selected in the .ami file, or
parameters selected in the .ami file determine the model selected in the [Model
Selector].
Either would be okay with me, since either removes the redundancy I'm trying to
shield my customers from.
Thanks,
-db
From: Walter Katz [mailto:wkatz@xxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2012 7:24 AM
To: Arpad_Muranyi@xxxxxxxxxx<mailto:Arpad_Muranyi@xxxxxxxxxx>; 'IBIS-ATM';
David Banas
Subject: RE: [ibis-macro] Re: Question on dependency tables.
David,
Exactly what did you mean by
"Any way we could use a Reserved parameter as an output from a dependency
table, which would guide the tool in its choice from the [Model Selector]?"
In the dependency BIRD (150) there is an "Intrinsic" independent parameter
[Model]. Consider the following example (Note I left a bunch of " 's out to
make the example more readable):
[Model Selector] Tx
Tx_1
Tx_2
Tx_3
In the .ami file one might have:
(Tstonefile (List ta.s4p tb.s4p tc.s4p) (Type String) (Usage Info))
(Tstonefile_Selector (Usage Dependency_Table)
(Parameter_Names [Model] Tstonefile)
(Column_Types In Out_Match)
(Table
(Tx_1 ta.s4p)
(Tx_2 tb.s4p)
(Tx_3 tc.s4p)
)
)
This is a different interpretation then Arpad's response. He would suggest that
the conditions chosen in the .ami file pick the model in the model selector, as
suggested in the following Dependency Table:
(Tstonefile (List ta.s4p tb.s4p tc.s4p) (Type String) (Usage Info))
(Tstonefile_Selector (Usage Dependency_Table)
(Parameter_Names Tstonefile [Model])
(Column_Types In Out_Match)
(Table
(ta.s4p Tx_1)
(tb.s4p Tx_2)
(tc.s4p Tx_3)
)
)
So I you requesting that the model selected by the user from the list in the
[Model Selector] control how parameters are selected in the .ami file, or
parameters selected in the .ami file determine the model selected in the [Model
Selector].
Walter
From: ibis-macro-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:ibis-macro-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
[mailto:ibis-macro-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Muranyi, Arpad
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2012 11:20 PM
To: 'IBIS-ATM'
Subject: [ibis-macro] Re: Question on dependency tables.
I don't think it would be too hard to achieve that with a new BIRD.
We would just need to define a [Model Selector] index (or something
similar) to that which could be "driven" by a parameter defined in
the .ami file (or any other parameter tree).
Arpad
====================================================================
From: ibis-macro-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:ibis-macro-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
[mailto:ibis-macro-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of David Banas
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2012 6:41 PM
To: Muranyi, Arpad; 'IBIS-ATM'
Subject: [ibis-macro] Re: Question on dependency tables.
Darn! That's what I wanted to do.
Any way we could use a Reserved parameter as an output from a dependency table,
which would guide the tool in its choice from the [Model Selector]?
From: ibis-macro-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:ibis-macro-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
[mailto:ibis-macro-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Muranyi, Arpad
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2012 4:02 PM
To: 'IBIS-ATM'
Subject: [ibis-macro] Re: Question on dependency tables.
David,
The way BIRDs 116, 117 118 are currently written, analog
models could be parameterized so that a parameter or
Dependency Table output value could be passed into the
IBIS-ISS subcircuit. So the answer to your question is
yes, this would be addressed. One thing that these BIRDs
and the Dependency Table could not do is select from
[Model Selector], because this is not parameterizable
as the IBIS spec is written.
Thanks,
Arpad
===========================================================
From: ibis-macro-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:ibis-macro-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
[mailto:ibis-macro-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of David Banas
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2012 5:47 PM
To: 'Walter Katz'; 'IBIS-ATM'
Subject: [ibis-macro] Re: Question on dependency tables.
Okay, thanks, but what I'd really like is the ability to have the user's AMI
parameter choices dictate the EDA tool's choice of analog model, so that the
user doesn't have to both:
* set all the AMI parameters appropriately, and
* choose the correct analog model (out of, possibly, hundreds), which
matches his AMI parameter choices.
For the models I'm developing, the second bullet item, above, is completely
redundant with the first, and I'd love for my customer not to be bothered with
it.
Will this be doable, using dependency tables as you envision them?
Thanks,
-db
From: Walter Katz [mailto:wkatz@xxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2012 3:27 PM
To: David Banas; 'IBIS-ATM'
Subject: RE: [ibis-macro] Question on dependency tables.
David,
Yes. The on-die s-parameters (either as Arpad suggest in BIRD 116, or I will
suggest in the package and on-die interconnect proposals will be able to
reference an AMI parameter such as Tstonefile. Tstonefile can be a dependent
parameter in a dependency table as demonstrated in the example on page 6 of the
latest draft (enclosed).
Walter
From: ibis-macro-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:ibis-macro-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
[mailto:ibis-macro-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of David Banas
Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2012 6:03 PM
To: 'IBIS-ATM'
Subject: [ibis-macro] Question on dependency tables.
Is the dependency tables BIRD written, such that a particular set of AMI
parameter user choices can dictate to the EDA tool which analog IBIS model to
select for modeling the buffer?
Thanks,
David Banas
Sr. Member Technical Staff
Altera<http://www.altera.com/>
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