[ibis-macro] Minutes from the 9 Sep 2008 ibis-atm meeting
- From: "Mike LaBonte (milabont)" <milabont@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: "IBIS-ATM" <ibis-macro@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 08:56:10 -0400
Minutes from the 9 Sep 2008 ibis-atm meeting are attached.
Mike
IBIS Macromodel Task Group
Meeting date: 09 September 2008
Members (asterisk for those attending):
Ambrish Varma, Cadence Design Systems
Anders Ekholm, Ericsson
* Arpad Muranyi, Mentor Graphics Corp.
Barry Katz, SiSoft
* Bob Ross, Teraspeed Consulting Group
Brad Brim, Sigrity
Brad Griffin, Cadence Design Systems
David Banas, Xilinx
Donald Telian, consultant
Doug White, Cisco Systems
Essaid Bensoudane, ST Microelectronics
* Fangyi Rao, Agilent
Ganesh Narayanaswamy, ST Micro
Gang Kang, Sigrity
Hemant Shah, Cadence Design Systems
Ian Dodd, Agilent
Joe Abler, IBM
John Angulo, Mentor Graphics
John Shields, Mentor Graphics
Ken Willis, Cadence Design Systems
Kumar
Lance Wang, Cadence Design Systems
Luis Boluna, Cisco Systems
* Michael Mirmak, Intel Corp.
* Mike LaBonte, Cisco Systems
Mike Steinberger, SiSoft
Mustansir Fanaswalla, Xilinx
Patrick O'Halloran, Tiburon Design Automation
Paul Fernando, NCSU
* Pavani Jella, TI
* Radek Biernacki, Agilent (EESof)
* Randy Wolff, Micron Technology
Ray Comeau, Cadence Design Systems
Richard Mellitz, Intel
Richard Ward, Texas Instruments
Sam Chitwood, Sigrity
Sanjeev Gupta, Agilent
Shangli Wu, Cadence Design Systems
Sid Singh, Extreme Networks
Stephen Scearce, Cisco Systems
Steve Pytel, Ansoft
Syed Huq, Cisco Systems
Syed Sadeghi, ST Micro
Terry Jernberg, Cadence Design Systems
Todd Westerhoff, SiSoft
Vikas Gupta, Xilinx
Vuk Borich, Agilent
* Walter Katz, SiSoft
Zhen Mu, Cadence Design Systems
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Opens:
- Arpad suggested we address the question of what EMD/EBD is supposed to solve
--------------------------
Call for patent disclosure:
- No one declared a patent.
-------------
Review of ARs:
- Walter send IBIS Interconnect SPICE document to Michael M and Todd
- Done
- David Banas report Xilinx position on LTI assumption for SerDes
- No update
- Arpad: Write parameter passing syntax proposal (BIRD draft)
for *-AMS models in IBIS that is consistent with the
parameter passing syntax of the AMI models
- TBD
- TBD: Propose a parameter passing syntax for the SPICE
- [External ...] also?
- TBD
- Arpad: Review the documentation (annotation) in the macro libraries.
- Deferred until a demand arises or we have nothing else to do
-------------
New Discussion:
Mike L can not take minutes next week.
- Randy will do this.
There is not much to discuss about the IBIS-SPICE document
- Only a few people have a copy of it.
Arpad asked if there are any old business items that we have been neglecting
- None were brought up.
Hierarchy issues between .IBS, .PKG, .ICM,. .EBD files:
- Should the IBS call the PKG, or the other way around?
- Which file should instantiate the .ICM file?
- Walter: If we want to use s-param today it has to be in an ICM file.
- Mike L: Sometimes there is no PKG, so PKG can't call IBS.
- Walter: We should not use ICM at all.
- EMD is a valid solution.
- ICM will require too much work.
Walter showed "Block Diagram View of EMD":
- Modules are connected peers
- No explicit top level object.
- EDA tools each have some kind of top level system already.
- An EMD module contains:
- components
- other EMDs
- "CAD Nets" are connected by copper or other 0 ohm material.
- An electrical net is either:
- CAD net
- Extended net
- EMD netlist is just a list of module pins.
- Interconnect netlist has the elements that connect module pins together.
- In the same way an EMD can call an EMD, EBD could call EMD and vice-versa.
- Arpad: The Interconnect netlist is like the "souped up EBD" proposal
- What is the difference from that proposal, which was critiqued by
Walter as being too complicated?
- Walter: EMD does not expose terminals that should be private.
- Arpad: My proposal showed 2 ways to do it.
- Michael M: The black box is a separate file?
- Walter: Yes.
- Michael M: The separate file could be EMD?
- Walter: No.
- It bridges the layout and module worlds without revealing either.
- Randy: Can EMD have test points?
- Walter: it must be named and added to the terminal list.
- Walter: Just the component information in IBIS is valuable, without buffers.
Synopsys contact update:
- Michael M: No meeting occurred.
- May be best to review the document for presentation in this group.
- We will discuss this next week.
Arpad: If ICM is being left behind, companies supporting it may be harmed
- Michael M: Those vendors need to speak up
- MM: Don't recall any spec being explicitly dropped.
- It happens passively when something better comes along.
- Walter: If tools want to call ICM at the top level, that is perfectly valid
- MM: ICM wants to specify all of the interconnect level circuitry for a module
- Walter: EMD will support that.
- Arpad: Could the lines between the red dots on slide 8 be described by
an s-param ICM?
- Walter: That would not be useful
- There are existing s-param formats.
- MM: ICM was to be tool-generic
- Walter: IBIS Interconnect SPICE makes it generic and usable.
- MM: Are we trying to neutralize something proprietary?
- That failed with ICM.
- Walter: EDA companies are saying they can support this.
Next meeting: 16 September 2008 12:00pm PT
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