[ibis-macro] Minutes from the 9 Dec 2008 ibis-atm meeting
- From: "Mike LaBonte (milabont)" <milabont@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: "IBIS-ATM" <ibis-macro@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2008 16:34:17 -0500
Minutes from the 9 Dec 2008 ibis-atm meeting are attached.
Mike
IBIS Macromodel Task Group
Meeting date: 9 December 2008
Members (asterisk for those attending):
Ambrish Varma, Cadence Design Systems
Anders Ekholm, Ericsson
* Arpad Muranyi, Mentor Graphics Corp.
Barry Katz, SiSoft
* Bob Ross, Teraspeed Consulting Group
Brad Brim, Sigrity
* Brad Griffin, Cadence Design Systems
David Banas, Xilinx
Donald Telian, consultant
Doug White, Cisco Systems
* Eckhard Lenski, Nokia-Siemens Networks
Essaid Bensoudane, ST Microelectronics
* Fangyi Rao, Agilent
Ganesh Narayanaswamy, ST Micro
Gang Kang, Sigrity
Hemant Shah, Cadence Design Systems
Ian Dodd, Agilent
Joe Abler, IBM
* John Angulo, Mentor Graphics
John Shields, Mentor Graphics
Ken Willis, Cadence Design Systems
Kumar
Lance Wang, Cadence Design Systems
Luis Boluna, Cisco Systems
* Michael Mirmak, Intel Corp.
* Mike LaBonte, Cisco Systems
Mike Steinberger, SiSoft
Mustansir Fanaswalla, Xilinx
Patrick O'Halloran, Tiburon Design Automation
Paul Fernando, NCSU
* Pavani Jella, TI
* Radek Biernacki, Agilent (EESof)
* Randy Wolff, Micron Technology
Ray Comeau, Cadence Design Systems
Richard Mellitz, Intel
Richard Ward, Texas Instruments
Sam Chitwood, Sigrity
Sanjeev Gupta, Agilent
Shangli Wu, Cadence Design Systems
Sid Singh, Extreme Networks
Stephen Scearce, Cisco Systems
Steve Pytel, Ansoft
Syed Huq, Cisco Systems
Syed Sadeghi, ST Micro
* Terry Jernberg, Cadence Design Systems
Todd Westerhoff, SiSoft
Vikas Gupta, Xilinx
Vuk Borich, Agilent
* Walter Katz, SiSoft
Zhen Mu, Cadence Design Systems
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Opens:
- None
--------------------------
Call for patent disclosure:
- No one declared a patent.
-------------
Review of ARs:
- All: Bring lists of solution requirements for new IBIS specification
- Discussed below
- Michael M: Confirm with Synopsys whether "used by permission" can be used
as the official indicator on relevant documents.
- No update
- Arpad: Write parameter passing syntax proposal (BIRD draft)
for *-AMS models in IBIS that is consistent with the
parameter passing syntax of the AMI models
- TBD
- TBD: Propose a parameter passing syntax for the SPICE
- [External ...] also?
- TBD
- Arpad: Review the documentation (annotation) in the macro libraries.
- Deferred until a demand arises or we have nothing else to do
-------------
New Discussion:
New IBIS brainstorming:
- Arpad showed his notes:
- List of 8 ideas for specific changes
- There are 3 issues:
- Assigning models
- How to simulate
- How to interpret results
- The solution must be universal
- Should we create a new language?
- Tool vendors will have to implement it
- Walter:
- It should be possible for IBIS to be parsed and converted to other languages
- Walter had proposed mask-based signal acceptance criteria to JEDEC
- It was received poorly
- Many IBIS parameters are based on how receivers actually work
- JEDEC does not spec that way
- Maybe we should conform to JEDEC specs
- Arpad: Should we require models to be 100% translatable?
- It does not have to be done macro style
- It can be done using whatever facilities each simulator has
- Michael M: We should not discuss particular language issues
- Michael M: What level of details are we looking for?
- John: BER too low, Vinl/Vinh not satisfied, etc.
- Walter: Arpad's "three issues" summary is very good
- Michael M: IBIS does those 3 today
- Arpad added a 4th item to the "3 issues" list:
- "Managable update mechanism"
- Michael M: Can break user community into 3 subgroups:
- EDA vendors
- System designers
- IC designers
- They are all here in this call
- What is easy for one is not necessarily easy for the others
- Terry: We need to hear from system vendors
- Arpad: We still don't have good differential buffer modeling
- Mike L:
- Having better power structure information would help
- Should IBIS have part level timing info?
- Michaal M: It should be easy for designers to extract data
- The format should be "self validating"
- IC vendors should not have to check it in all simulator tools
- Michael M: Tools have to produce the same results using these models
- JEITA did a study of simulators and found big differences
- Arpad: Vendors have room for interpretation with keyword models
- Equation based tools would reduce that
- Michael M: The solution has to be accessible in implementation and cost
- Mike L: Would expanded use of AMI models help?
- Michael M: Extraction would be a problem
- Brad: There has to be a way to check model quality
- Mike L: Checking IBIS against data sheets is hard
- Can we design an IBIS that could serve as the new data sheet?
- Can we make it so JEDEC wants to use it for specs?
- Radek: IC vendors should tell us what they need
- They may need table data or DLLs to protect their IP
- Arpad: This is somewhat driven by simulation tools
- Extraction can be difficult with a limited language
- Mike L: It can be hard to extract into behavioral languages too
- Arpad will update his document for next week
Next meeting: 16 December 2008 12:00pm PT
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