[ibis-macro] Minutes from the 5 Feb 2013 ibis-atm meeting
- From: Mike LaBonte <mike@xxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: IBIS-ATM <ibis-macro@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2013 14:46:36 -0500
Minutes from the 5 Feb 2013 ibis-atm meeting are attached.
Mike
IBIS Macromodel Task Group
Meeting date: 05 Feb 2013
Members (asterisk for those attending):
Agilent: Fangyi Rao
* Radek Biernacki
Altera: * David Banas
Julia Liu
Hazlina Ramly
Andrew Joy Consulting: Andy Joy
ANSYS: Samuel Mertens
* Dan Dvorscak
* Curtis Clark
Steve Pytel
* Luis Armenta
Arrow Electronics: Ian Dodd
Cadence Design Systems: Terry Jernberg
* Ambrish Varma
Feras Al-Hawari
Brad Brim
Kumar Keshavan
Ken Willis
Cavium Networks: Johann Nittmann
Celsionix: Kellee Crisafulli
Cisco Systems: Ashwin Vasudevan
Syed Huq
Ericsson: * Anders Ekholm
IBM: Greg Edlund
Intel: * Michael Mirmak
Maxim Integrated Products: Mahbubul Bari
Hassan Raghat
Ron Olisar
Mentor Graphics: * John Angulo
Zhen Mu
* Arpad Muranyi
Vladimir Dmitriev-Zdorov
Micron Technology: Randy Wolff
Justin Butterfield
NetLogic Microsystems: Ryan Couts
Nokia-Siemens Networks: Eckhard Lenski
QLogic Corp. James Zhou
SiSoft: * Walter Katz
Todd Westerhoff
Doug Burns
* Mike LaBonte
Snowbush IP: Marcus Van Ierssel
ST Micro: Syed Sadeghi
Teraspeed Consulting Group: Scott McMorrow
* Bob Ross
TI: Casey Morrison
Alfred Chong
Vitesse Semiconductor: Eric Sweetman
Xilinx: Mustansir Fanaswalla
Ray Anderson
The meeting was led by Arpad Muranyi
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Opens:
- Arpad: We need to introduce Walter's recent BIRD
- Walter: It would be useful to review Arpad's excellent DesignCon
presentation
--------------------------
Call for patent disclosure:
- None
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Review of ARs:
- None
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New Discussion:
Interconnect Task Group report:
- Michael M: On Jan 23 we discussed summit material and David Banas' survey
Analog modeling plan:
- Arpad: After the end of the summit we discussed the SiSoft/Agilent press
release
- The authors were given an unofficial AR to propose the method they are using
- Hopefully this will be discussed soon
- Walter: I have vacation, it will be ready in 2 weeks
- Arpad: It seems the idea of two parallel approaches is bottoming out
- The BIRDs I like would allow IBIS modeling as well as AMI
- The approaches have some overlap
- Walter: IBIS-ISS would allow legacy IBIS broadband models
- The idea here is to represent on-die interconnect as broadband
- Non-AMI solutions would best target non-LTI using legacy buffers
- Arpad: We could review the BIRDs involved
- The Cadence BIRD 145 also allows broadband models
- A slide set should be made
- We should set aside time for long term overhaul of keywords like [Model]
Arpad show the presentation "What's Wrong with IBIS?":
- slide 2:
- Arpad: We must decide whether to tweak or leave behind.
- The legacy syntax is unappealing
- This might involve many IBIS feature changes
- Walter: EMD is not a leave behind approach
- It addresses all industry interconnect needs
- IBIS has various interconnect solutions, which would not be touched
- The final problem is on-die interconnect, which EMD can address
- Modifications for pre and post layout might be needed
- The existing models can be unaffected
- Only minor tweaks to IBIS are needed
- slide 3:
- Arpad: We both have content related issues, but also usage issues
- Stacked die support is a problem, we have no [Die] keyword
- IBIS [Pin] is targeted for post-layout
- Walter: Disagree, a stacked die should go in EMD, not IBIS
- Arpad: I had some syntax examples, but it was too long for the summit
- We should have a planned effort to clean up the IBIS specification
- Radek: That would be good, a review of the IBIS specification structure
- Bob: This sets a new direction, seeming to abandon [External Model] and
[External Circuit]
- Arpad: Yes, I am thinking about a new model keyword, object oriented
- It should not be layered the way we have it now, where one language
calls another
- Radek: Those do not seem to be popular
- Michael M: There may be interest in tying IBIS to HDL languages
- Arpad: IBIS-ISS is universally accepted, but BIRD 116 is not well received
- A new keyword may solve that
- Walter: ISS is for interconnect, [External Model] is not
- An IBIS-BSS might work
- Arpad: We chose an LTI subset of HSPICE, but not excluding other possibilities
- Walter: IBIS-ISS was created after we decided EMD needed it
- Bob: We could use any SPICE brand as a superset
- The idea was to connect any kind of buffer to pins
- As it stands EDA vendors are getting around the problem with proprietary
solutions
- Arpad: We must decide if a new meeting is needed for an overhaul, or use
this one
- We still have BIRDs to work on
- Michael M: The people will be the same anyway
- A combined meeting would be best, this one
- Arpad: The Advanced Technology meeting would be best for futures work
David: Can we agree to decide on BIRDs 116 and 122 in two weeks?
- Arpad: Yes, and next week we can discuss redrivers
- Radek: Fangyi may not be here next week
- Walter: A repeater can a redriver or a retimer
- Fangyi's flows are nearly identical for a retimer
- Arpad: Can Walter speak for BIRD 131?
- Ambrish: There is nothing in the AMI file for what happens between RX and TX
- Walter: SiSoft believe both Init and GetWave flows should be supported
- Some support this and others produce separate models
- With a repeater there can be more flows to support, without rules
requiring specific support
- Ambrish: I would like to see a case that is a problem
- Radek: Fangyi would rather not combine BIRDs 131 and 156
- Arpad: Fangyi's BIRD is only for redrivers
- Michael M: BIRD 156 needs to be relabeled
- There has to be a flow to describe how data gets from the RX to TX side
- Only BIRD 131 has the keyword to say the RX and TX are connected
- Ambrish: Fangyi believes [Repeater Pin] changes traditional IBIS waveforms
- Michael M: We could say repeater has to have an AMI model
- Otherwise we would have to be clever
- This is just like [Series Switch], it might be put in there
- Bob: It might be [AMI Repeater]
- Michael M: Only if [Series Switch] is not adequate
- Walter: Retimers want to use multiple ways to generate the TX side impulse
response
- Redrivers have no digital stimulus, how to generate the impulse response?
- Arpad: Do we need two BIRDs?
- Walter: The repeater BIRD should stay the same
- I could create a new BIRD for retimers
- Ambrish: I would prefer to add to BIRD 156 instead of having 3 BIRDs
- Walter: I will add it only if Fangyi and I can't agree
Arpad: If Fangyi is not here next week can we discuss backchannel?
- Ambrish: Not sure we will be ready to discuss BIRD 147
- Radek: We could discuss BIRD 155
- Arpad: We will plan to discuss BIRD 155
AR: Ambrish email reflector regarding BIRD 147 status
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Next meeting: 12 Feb 2013 12:00pm PT
Next agenda:
1) Task list item discussions
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IBIS Interconnect SPICE Wish List:
1) Simulator directives
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