[ibis-macro] Minutes from the 25 Mar 2014 ibis-atm meeting
- From: Mike LaBonte <mike@xxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: ibis-macro@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2014 23:17:35 -0400
Minutes from the 25 Mar 2014 ibis-atm meeting are attached.
Mike
IBIS Macromodel Task Group
Meeting date: 25 March 2014
Members (asterisk for those attending):
Agilent: * Fangyi Rao
* Radek Biernacki
Altera: * David Banas
ANSYS: Dan Dvorscak
* Curtis Clark
Cadence Design Systems: * Ambrish Varma
Brad Brim
* Kumar Keshavan
Ken Willis
Scott Huss
Ericsson: Anders Ekholm
Intel: * Michael Mirmak
LSI * Amaresh Malipatil
* Dai Xingdong
Maxim Integrated Products: Hassan Rafat
Mentor Graphics: * John Angulo
* Arpad Muranyi
Andrey Matvienko
Micron Technology: * Randy Wolff
Justin Butterfield
QLogic Corp. James Zhou
Andy Joy
SiSoft: * Walter Katz
* Todd Westerhoff
* Mike LaBonte
Teraspeed Consulting Group: Scott McMorrow
* Bob Ross
The meeting was led by Arpad Muranyi
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Opens:
- Arpad: Interconnect task group meetings resume tomorrow.
- Mike L: Michael Mirmak owns the email list for that.
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Call for patent disclosure:
- None
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Review of ARs:
- Arpad produce examples for BIRD 163, 164, 165
- In progress.
- Can be dropped from this agenda.
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New Discussion:
BIRD 147 draft 7:
- Walter: Summary of issues:
- Not general enough to satisfy user community.
- It does not satisfy system designers evaluating channels.
- It does not support statistical flow.
- It doesn't deal with presets.
- It doesn't tell how how to program the device.
- Can't see how to change it incrementally.
- I am asking Ambrish to remove my name as author.
- Arpad: What changes do you propose?
- Walter: I don't have the resources to work on it now.
- It might model what IC designers want, but not system designers.
- It can't find optimum solutions.
- This has been mentioned several times.
- Ambrish: By definition a back-channel is time domain.
- We might look at statistical later.
- Todd: It isn't worth it, a new approach is needed.
- Ambrish: Two IC vendors have asked for this.
- They are happy with the implementation.
- Arpad: Walter said system designers couldn't use it.
- Ambrish: They need a model of the actual device.
- Kumar: That is an artificial distinction between system and IC designers.
- The model just has to do what the device is doing.
- Walter: Scott Huss said he had a model that finds an optimal solution.
- System designers just want to know what that solution is.
- It's asking a different question, doesn't report the solution.
- Ambrish: The models can report whatever they want.
- Kumar: They only have to model what the actual device does.
- Michael M: Is there any plan to propose a solution that does address
statistical?
- Kumar: We have no plans.
- Todd: There seems to be no consensus in this group that statistical analysis
is important.
- Michael M: It's important.
- Arpad: Are we saying there is or is not a need to support statistical?
- Todd: We absolutely need it, to support simulation of many channels.
- Michael M: I use statistical analysis.
- We also need time domain too.
- Kumar: These should not be mixed up in the same BIRD.
- Radek: The problem is that this BIRD can not be passed if it will not allow
extension to statistical.
- Kumar: I can't support that.
- Radek: We should expect the results of optimization to be applied to
statistical analysis.
- This BIRD does not even discuss statistical.
- Ambrish: Nothing stops anyone from extending it to statistical.
- Michael M: It must not be required to use a bit stream for optimization.
- Arpad: We don't want to corner ourselves with this.
- Michael M: We probably could add to this BIRD to open the door for
statistical.
- We must carefully define what the silicon actually does.
- The model might not do what the silicon does.
- There needs to be a parameter stating whether the model matches silicon.
- Kumar: Customers will not know what to trust.
- There should be a separate model for statistical.
- Mike: This approach is an abstraction.
- This is parameter passing, not voltages at the physical level.
- Fangyi: True, that is a concern.
- Kumar: There are many problems in adaptation, abstraction is needed.
- Todd: All modeling is an abstraction, otherwise we would be using HSPICE.
- My customers want performance, some abstraction is needed.
- We need a strategy to support time domain and statistical together.
- Arpad: It would be best done together even if in separate BIRDs.
- Otherwise we might corner ourselves.
- Michael M: Who can do this?
- Todd: We can't put time into this until as a group we decide to address the
issue.
- We might have a vote on this.
- Arpad: We can have a vote next week, giving us time to think about it.
- Michael M: This is a "sense of the committee" vote.
BUG 150 - ambiguous directionality:
- Michael M: Nothing is new, other than reflector discussion.
- We can discuss this next week.
BIRD 128 - AMI_parameters_out passing AMI_parameters_in data
- Arpad: It seems BIRD 147 affects BIRD 128, there is a dependency.
- Walter: There is a dependency.
- We had an objection from Radek.
- Radek: Arpad raised concern too.
- It is fixable but I don't have time right now.
- Arpad: Yes I am concerned.
- We should wait to see what happens with BIRD 147.
Walter: I would like to discuss a new BIRD on redriver flow next week.
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Next meeting: 01 April 2014 12:00pm PT
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IBIS Interconnect SPICE Wish List:
1) Simulator directives
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- » [ibis-macro] Minutes from the 25 Mar 2014 ibis-atm meeting - Mike LaBonte
