[ibis-macro] Minutes from the 17 May 2008 ibis-atm meeting
- From: "Mike LaBonte (milabont)" <milabont@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: "IBIS-ATM" <ibis-macro@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2008 07:33:41 -0400
Minutes from the 17 May 2008 ibis-atm meeting are attached. ARs:
AR: Walter send presentation to Mike
AR: Mike post Walter's presentation
Mike
IBIS Macromodel Task Group
Meeting date: 17 Jun 2008
Members (asterisk for those attending):
Ambrish Varma, Cadence Design Systems
* Anders Ekholm, Ericsson
* Arpad Muranyi, Mentor Graphics Corp.
Barry Katz, SiSoft
* Bob Ross, Teraspeed Consulting Group
Brad Brim, Sigrity
* Brad Griffin, Cadence Design Systems
David Banas, Xilinx
Donald Telian, consultant
Doug White, Cisco Systems
Essaid Bensoudane, ST Microelectronics
Fangyi Rao, ???
Ganesh Narayanaswamy, ST Micro
Gang Kang, Sigrity
Hemant Shah, Cadence Design Systems
Ian Dodd, Agilent
Joe Abler, IBM
* John Angulo, Mentor Graphics
John Shields, Mentor Graphics
Ken Willis, Cadence Design Systems
Kumar
Lance Wang, Cadence Design Systems
Luis Boluna, Cisco Systems
Michael Mirmak, Intel Corp.
* Mike LaBonte, Cisco Systems
Mike Steinberger, SiSoft
* Mustansir Fanaswalla, Xilinx
Patrick O'Halloran, Tiburon Design Automation
Paul Fernando, NCSU
Radek Biernacki, Agilent (EESof)
* Randy Wolff, Micron Technology
Ray Comeau, Cadence Design Systems
Richard Mellitz, Intel
Richard Ward, Texas Instruments
Sam Chitwood, Sigrity
Sanjeev Gupta, Agilent
Shangli Wu, Cadence Design Systems
Sid Singh, Extreme Networks
Stephen Scearce, Cisco Systems
Steve Pytel, Ansoft
Syed Huq, Cisco Systems
Syed Sadeghi, ST Micro
* Terry Jernberg, Cadence Design Systems
* Todd Westerhoff, SiSoft
Vikas Gupta, Xilinx
Vuk Borich, Agilent
* Walter Katz, SiSoft
Zhen Mu, Cadence Design Systems
--------------------------
Call for patent disclosure:
- No one declared a patent.
-----
Opens:
Bob: Sent out a draft BIRD 110 for discussion:
- Define AMI acronym
Arpad: Would be good to discuss Sigrity interconnect presentation
-------------
Review of ARs:
- Mike change "Application" to "Algorithmic" on web site
- Done
- Walter prepare list of primitives for discussion next week
- David Banas report Xilinx position on LTI assumption for SerDes
- No update
- Arpad: Write parameter passing syntax proposal (BIRD draft)
for *-AMS models in IBIS that is consistent with the
parameter passing syntax of the AMI models
- TBD
- TBD: Propose a parameter passing syntax for the SPICE
- [External ...] also?
- TBD
- Arpad: Review the documentation (annotation) in the macro libraries.
- Deferred until a demand arises or we have nothing else to do
-------------
New Discussion:
Walter showed a presentation: EMD Differential Transmission Line Model
- We need to agree on this model.
- Descriptions:
- 1 List of physical properties.
- 2 Physical/electrical
- 3 Lumped RLC
- 4 Coupled lumped RLCK
- 5 Lossless uncoupled Tline
- Other:
- RLGC (with skin effect parameters)
- Table (freq dependent)
- Touchstone
- Impulse (mentioned at DesignCon)
- Pole Zero (none seen for connectors)
- Ladder
- Could be others
- Why did ICM not use RLGC style?
- Accuracy was the problem
- Arpad: Impulse response and Pole/Zero can go under W Line
- Arpad: There are 2 aspects to this:
- Netlisting
- Modeling
- Walter: A connector or package should be able to support multiple views
- Example: One could use an S-param if DC does not matter.
- Arpad: Then you have to correlate the different descriptions.
- Walter: The model maker makes the choice of which to deliver.
- Walter: IBIS already has the elements R, L, C, G, K, T, W, S
- Arpad: We are having the same conversation as when we started, trying
to define a SPICE subset.
- Walter: Meetings of just the EDA vendors have worked well.
- Arpad: Not every tool accepts parameters.
- Walter: Preprocessors will be used.
- Arpad: Some simulators will not handle changing parameters.
- Walter: No time-variant params will be used
- Walter: Corner is a function of very long times.
- Arpad: Do we model electromigration?
- Arpad: We are inventing a new language, but there are already so many
- It will become outdated like IBIS
- Someone may need a resistor that changes with voltage, for example.
- Walter: Interconnect is LTI, this should not be needed.
- Todd: We don't have a language framework to articulate what we need.
- Berkely SPICE is insufficient
- Vendors have declined to allow their language to be used
- We have to invent something.
- Arpad: This would be "interconnect SPICE", which would be limited
- Arpad: Should we have a survey of companies?
- Much effort was put into macro and ICM, and we are there again.
- Mike: We should establish that all models conform to LTI assumptions.
AR: Walter send presentation to Mike
AR: Mike post Walter's presentation
Next meeting: 24 Jun 2008 12:00pm PT
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