[ibis-macro] Minutes from the 12 Mar 2013 ibis-atm meeting
- From: Mike LaBonte <mike@xxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: IBIS-ATM <ibis-macro@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2013 13:23:58 -0400
Minutes from the 12 Mar 2013 ibis-atm meeting are attached.
Mike
IBIS Macromodel Task Group
Meeting date: 12 Mar 2013
Members (asterisk for those attending):
Agilent: * Fangyi Rao
* Radek Biernacki
Altera: * David Banas
Julia Liu
Hazlina Ramly
Andrew Joy Consulting: Andy Joy
ANSYS: Samuel Mertens
* Dan Dvorscak
* Curtis Clark
Steve Pytel
Luis Armenta
Arrow Electronics: Ian Dodd
Cadence Design Systems: Terry Jernberg
* Ambrish Varma
Feras Al-Hawari
Brad Brim
Kumar Keshavan
Ken Willis
Cavium Networks: Johann Nittmann
Celsionix: Kellee Crisafulli
Cisco Systems: Ashwin Vasudevan
Syed Huq
Ericsson: Anders Ekholm
IBM: Greg Edlund
Intel: * Michael Mirmak
Maxim Integrated Products: Mahbubul Bari
Hassan Raghat
Ron Olisar
Mentor Graphics: * John Angulo
Zhen Mu
* Arpad Muranyi
Vladimir Dmitriev-Zdorov
Micron Technology: Randy Wolff
Justin Butterfield
NetLogic Microsystems: Ryan Couts
Nokia-Siemens Networks: Eckhard Lenski
QLogic Corp. James Zhou
SiSoft: * Walter Katz
* Todd Westerhoff
Doug Burns
* Mike LaBonte
Snowbush IP: Marcus Van Ierssel
ST Micro: Syed Sadeghi
Teraspeed Consulting Group: Scott McMorrow
* Bob Ross
TI: Casey Morrison
Alfred Chong
Vitesse Semiconductor: Eric Sweetman
Xilinx: Mustansir Fanaswalla
Ray Anderson
The meeting was led by Arpad Muranyi
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Opens:
- None
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Call for patent disclosure:
- None
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Review of ARs:
- Mike post updated BIRD 147
- Done
- Arpad try to apply BIRD 158 shortcut language to his BIRDs 116-118
- In progress
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New Discussion:
Interconnect Update:
- Michael M: There was no meeting last week
- The current agenda is still being worked on
Arpad showed "Analog BIRD Review":
- Michael M: The idea is to have relatively few BIRDs
- Members are free to ask to schedule any of these BIRDs for a vote
- Arpad: Is there a deadline to get into the next IBIS version?
- Michael M: According to plan that would have been March 1
- We can still get the BIRDs approved will still help
- Having unvoted BIRDs is the worst case
- Only 1 BIRD is now approved
- Bob: We need to make tough choices, including rejecting BIRDs
- Mike L: The next release should be a permanent Open Forum agenda item
- slide 2:
- Arpad: Most of these are my BIRDs
- 116.1, 117.4, 118.3, 129, 145.2, 153
- Arpad went over the status of each BIRD in detail
- Arpad: They need to be converted to the new format
- Then I would like to vote to vote on them
- Walter: [External Circuit] was targeted for package interconnect, not on-die
- BIRD 145 should not go through
- It is fundamentally flawed
- Arpad: BIRD 145 is not absolutely necessary
- Do not agree the idea is fundamentally flawed
- Are you saying BIRD 116 should be removed too?
- Walter: I am only saying we should not work on [External Circuit]
- Not even to add IBIS-ISS to it
- Arpad: It's not a complicated addition
- Bob: Technically we already support on-die interconnect with [External
Circuit]
- BIRD 153 should be moved to a separate file
- Arpad: We should all look these BIRDs over and be ready to vote
- Ambrish: Should we discuss BIRDs 116-118 before converting to new format?
- Michael M: Keywords are added to the spec, but there is no requirement to
support them
- No one has used transit time, for example
- Radek: This does not end the analog model issue
- In [External Model] everything has to be in IBIS format
- It is a separate issue whether IBIS-ISS will be usable
- Arpad: These BIRDs may not address every problem
- But they address enough
- Meanwhile we can work on the long term solution
- Walter: [External Circuit] does not come close to solving the analog model
problem we have today
- It would be a waste of time
- Arpad: It is just adding a language, not a waste of time
- Bob: The BIRDs should reference IBIS 5.1, not 5.0
- Once this is done we need a parser for it
- That is the best way to adopt these BIRDs
- It will take funding to get this done
- Arpad: It is a short term solution
- Bob: It might take 2 years
- Michael M: Next OF meetings are this Friday and Apr 15
- Keep tat in mind if we want to set a new deadline date
Fangyi showed "Redriver Background" (from recent DesignCon):
- http://www.eda.org/ibis/summits/jan13/bari.pdf
- slide 7:
- Fangyi: In a redriver there is no retiming
- It can be non-linear
- It can't go in the current flow
- Arpad: For very long channels can many of these be cascaded?
- Fangyi: Yes, this BIRD supports that
- slide 8:
- Fangyi: It has to be modeled to behave like an analog circuit
- It is driven by an analog waveform, not an event
- The redriver TX is different from a regular TX
- Michael M: Is this limited to bit by bit time domain simulation?
- Fangyi: This is focused on time domain
- Statistical is possible, but there are practical issues
- For example, how to model device internal noise
- Todd: Does the BIRD say it is for time domain?
- Fangyi: No
- slide 7:
- Michael M: Isn't jitter amplified?
- Fangyi: We assume a linear, noiseless, and passive channel
- Device noise must be translated to jitter somehow
- slide 10:
- Fangyi: The TX and RX halves are in the same IBIS file
- They have separate AMI and DLL files
- Bob: Should the Model_type indicate they are redrivers?
- Michael M: This gives no indication the RX feeds to the TX
- Fangyi: We are open to suggestions about that
- Todd: Walter proposed a means for that some time ago
- Fangyi: There is no conflict with Walter's proposal
- Ambrish: We should support non-AMI redrivers too
- Fangyi: This BIRD assumes AMI
- Walter: My [Repeater Pins] keyword could be [Buffer Pins]
- It would be a retimer or redriver depending on whether there is
an AMI model, and whether it returns clock_times
- Ambrish: We need to go into the flow of how that works
- Radek: As written it is only valid for AMI simulations
- Bob: All of the analog effects are handled in the DLL
- The TX part would drive the downstream channel
- Fangyi: But it is pure analog, not event driven
- Michael M: The only parallel we have is [Series MOSFET]
Arpad: What needs to be done to these BIRDs 131 and 158?
- Ambrish: There should be no problem merging them
- Fangyi: I would prefer to keep them separate
- Bob: Should we vote one down?
- Ambrish: We can't vote down 131
- Walter: I will create a new BIRD to propose the pin keywords
AR: Walter write new BIRD for repeater/retimer pin keywords
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Next meeting: 19 Mar 2013 12:00pm PT
Next agenda:
1) Task list item discussions
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IBIS Interconnect SPICE Wish List:
1) Simulator directives
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