[ibis-macro] Minutes from the 12 Feb 2013 ibis-atm meeting

  • From: Mike LaBonte <mike@xxxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: IBIS-ATM <ibis-macro@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2013 18:07:03 -0500

Minutes from the 12 Feb 2013 ibis-atm meeting are attached.

IBIS Macromodel Task Group

Meeting date: 12 Feb 2013

Members (asterisk for those attending):
Agilent:                      Fangyi Rao
                            * Radek Biernacki
Altera:                     * David Banas
                              Julia Liu
                              Hazlina Ramly
Andrew Joy Consulting:        Andy Joy
ANSYS:                        Samuel Mertens
                            * Dan Dvorscak
                            * Curtis Clark
                              Steve Pytel
                              Luis Armenta
Arrow Electronics:            Ian Dodd
Cadence Design Systems:       Terry Jernberg
                            * Ambrish Varma
                              Feras Al-Hawari
                              Brad Brim
                              Kumar Keshavan
                              Ken Willis
Cavium Networks:              Johann Nittmann
Celsionix:                    Kellee Crisafulli
Cisco Systems:                Ashwin Vasudevan
                              Syed Huq
Ericsson:                     Anders Ekholm
IBM:                          Greg Edlund
Intel:                        Michael Mirmak
Maxim Integrated Products:    Mahbubul Bari
                              Hassan Raghat
                              Ron Olisar
Mentor Graphics:            * John Angulo
                              Zhen Mu
                            * Arpad Muranyi
                              Vladimir Dmitriev-Zdorov
Micron Technology:            Randy Wolff
                              Justin Butterfield
NetLogic Microsystems:        Ryan Couts
Nokia-Siemens Networks:       Eckhard Lenski
QLogic Corp.                  James Zhou
SiSoft:                       Walter Katz
                              Todd Westerhoff
                              Doug Burns
                            * Mike LaBonte
Snowbush IP:                  Marcus Van Ierssel
ST Micro:                     Syed Sadeghi
Teraspeed Consulting Group:   Scott McMorrow
                            * Bob Ross
TI:                           Casey Morrison
                              Alfred Chong
Vitesse Semiconductor:        Eric Sweetman
Xilinx:                       Mustansir Fanaswalla
                              Ray Anderson

The meeting was led by Arpad Muranyi


- None

Call for patent disclosure:

- None

Review of ARs:

- Ambrish email reflector regarding BIRD 147 status
  - This may not have been an assigned AR from last week

New Discussion:

Interconnect Task Group report:
- No report

Arpad showed a reorganized list of high priority BIRDs to work on
- Arpad: For AMI our major topics are redriver, backchannel, and dependency 
- Arpad recapped the nature of the various analog BIRDs (10 of them)
- Bob: We were supposed to hear about the Agilent/SiSoft proposal
- Radek: It is mostly about using touchstone for the on-die model
  - It is not a general solution
- Arpad: Walter described it as using analog parameters in the AMI file
  - We may want to implement both the press release solution on other BIRDs
  - We could work on replacing our legacy IBIS and it might replace the BIRD
    116 family
  - The question is if we need an interim solution while working on it
- Mike: BIRD 153 probably would go away if we created a new IBIS
- Bob: We have too many BIRDs
  - The AMI list is shorter and more tractable
  - About BIRD 153, overloading IBIS with another format would not be good
- Arpad: The parameter tree could be in an external file
- Bob: It might be better to go with something like EMD, which is more like
- Radek: But we need to solve the parameter passing issue
  - IBIS-ISS is waiting to be used, but there is no way to link to it
  - It is most important right now to solve the analog model problem
  - We have not said how to derive the impulse response
- Arpad: We decided to leave that up to vendors
- Radek: This allows vendors to derive responses that don't work correctly with 
- Ambrish: Should that be in the spec or separate?
- Radek: In the spec
- Arpad and Bob agreed
- There was discussion about the nature of impulse responses
- David: If we were to ever get clock to out delay we would use the standard
  delay technique
  - It is a bad idea for EDA tools to normalize the impulse response
  - We should prescribe a reference flow in section 10
  - Tools are free to implement any method but they have to get the same results
- Ambrish: We should not do that
- Radek: It should be fine as long as people agree the reference flow produces
  an expected result
- Ambrish: We could put the impulse response in the algorithm model
- Arpad: Greg was suggesting only that the model CALCULATE the impulse response
- Radek: It is not advisable to do that
- Arpad: The DLL could calculate it, but why burden the model?
- Ambrish: We are jumping the gun and discussing BIRD 122 already

Arpad: We need to schedule topics for the next few meetings:
- Ambrish: We should discuss BIRDs 116 to 118
  - The press release discussed those
- Arpad: Walter has an AR to introduce his proposal next week
  - We were going to have important BIRD work done by the next IBIS release
- Bob: It might be a problem getting into 6.0, maybe it would be 6.1
- Arpad: Our new approach was to have scheduled releases
- Bob: We should resolve all AMI BIRDs
- Ambrish: Our big issue is what to have for an analog BIRD
  - [External Model] should be workable
- Bob: 3 vendors support it and 3 don't
- Arpad: Walter has an issue with that approach, and there may be ways to fix it
- Ambrish: We want use s-params, that has worked well
- Radek: We were thinking of not using [External Model], but something similar
  - The problem with [External Model] is that it is a total replacement
- Arpad: An AMI subckt would work well using IBIS-ISS
- Radek: Agree
- Mike: We might get somewhere by trimming down BIRDs that have too much
  - Mostly we need to vote down some BIRDs
- Bob: We have been voting on amendments to BIRDs
- Arpad: We might create a simplification to the [External Model] approach
- Bob: Do we need a long term solution or would short term do?
- Ambrish: We should not take shortcuts
- Mike: The longer term general solutions have the problem that [Model] is not 
- Ambrish: The problem is that vendors are not making models
- Arpad: Walter believes EMD solves this, but that is a gobbledlygook approach

Arpad: Hopefully we can resume redriver discussions with Fangyi on board
- Radek: He will be back next week
- Ambrish: We can discuss backchannel soon
- Arpad: We should reserve half the meeting for a proposal from Walter

Next meeting: 19 Feb 2013 12:00pm PT

Next agenda:
1) Task list item discussions

IBIS Interconnect SPICE Wish List:

1) Simulator directives

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