[ibis-macro] Minutes from the 12 Feb 2013 ibis-atm meeting
- From: Mike LaBonte <mike@xxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: IBIS-ATM <ibis-macro@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2013 18:07:03 -0500
Minutes from the 12 Feb 2013 ibis-atm meeting are attached.
Mike
IBIS Macromodel Task Group
Meeting date: 12 Feb 2013
Members (asterisk for those attending):
Agilent: Fangyi Rao
* Radek Biernacki
Altera: * David Banas
Julia Liu
Hazlina Ramly
Andrew Joy Consulting: Andy Joy
ANSYS: Samuel Mertens
* Dan Dvorscak
* Curtis Clark
Steve Pytel
Luis Armenta
Arrow Electronics: Ian Dodd
Cadence Design Systems: Terry Jernberg
* Ambrish Varma
Feras Al-Hawari
Brad Brim
Kumar Keshavan
Ken Willis
Cavium Networks: Johann Nittmann
Celsionix: Kellee Crisafulli
Cisco Systems: Ashwin Vasudevan
Syed Huq
Ericsson: Anders Ekholm
IBM: Greg Edlund
Intel: Michael Mirmak
Maxim Integrated Products: Mahbubul Bari
Hassan Raghat
Ron Olisar
Mentor Graphics: * John Angulo
Zhen Mu
* Arpad Muranyi
Vladimir Dmitriev-Zdorov
Micron Technology: Randy Wolff
Justin Butterfield
NetLogic Microsystems: Ryan Couts
Nokia-Siemens Networks: Eckhard Lenski
QLogic Corp. James Zhou
SiSoft: Walter Katz
Todd Westerhoff
Doug Burns
* Mike LaBonte
Snowbush IP: Marcus Van Ierssel
ST Micro: Syed Sadeghi
Teraspeed Consulting Group: Scott McMorrow
* Bob Ross
TI: Casey Morrison
Alfred Chong
Vitesse Semiconductor: Eric Sweetman
Xilinx: Mustansir Fanaswalla
Ray Anderson
The meeting was led by Arpad Muranyi
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Opens:
- None
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Call for patent disclosure:
- None
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Review of ARs:
- Ambrish email reflector regarding BIRD 147 status
- This may not have been an assigned AR from last week
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New Discussion:
Interconnect Task Group report:
- No report
Arpad showed a reorganized list of high priority BIRDs to work on
- Arpad: For AMI our major topics are redriver, backchannel, and dependency
table
- Arpad recapped the nature of the various analog BIRDs (10 of them)
- Bob: We were supposed to hear about the Agilent/SiSoft proposal
- Radek: It is mostly about using touchstone for the on-die model
- It is not a general solution
- Arpad: Walter described it as using analog parameters in the AMI file
- We may want to implement both the press release solution on other BIRDs
- We could work on replacing our legacy IBIS and it might replace the BIRD
116 family
- The question is if we need an interim solution while working on it
- Mike: BIRD 153 probably would go away if we created a new IBIS
- Bob: We have too many BIRDs
- The AMI list is shorter and more tractable
- About BIRD 153, overloading IBIS with another format would not be good
- Arpad: The parameter tree could be in an external file
- Bob: It might be better to go with something like EMD, which is more like
IBIS
- Radek: But we need to solve the parameter passing issue
- IBIS-ISS is waiting to be used, but there is no way to link to it
- It is most important right now to solve the analog model problem
- We have not said how to derive the impulse response
- Arpad: We decided to leave that up to vendors
- Radek: This allows vendors to derive responses that don't work correctly with
models
- Ambrish: Should that be in the spec or separate?
- Radek: In the spec
- Arpad and Bob agreed
- There was discussion about the nature of impulse responses
- David: If we were to ever get clock to out delay we would use the standard
delay technique
- It is a bad idea for EDA tools to normalize the impulse response
- We should prescribe a reference flow in section 10
- Tools are free to implement any method but they have to get the same results
- Ambrish: We should not do that
- Radek: It should be fine as long as people agree the reference flow produces
an expected result
- Ambrish: We could put the impulse response in the algorithm model
- Arpad: Greg was suggesting only that the model CALCULATE the impulse response
- Radek: It is not advisable to do that
- Arpad: The DLL could calculate it, but why burden the model?
- Ambrish: We are jumping the gun and discussing BIRD 122 already
Arpad: We need to schedule topics for the next few meetings:
- Ambrish: We should discuss BIRDs 116 to 118
- The press release discussed those
- Arpad: Walter has an AR to introduce his proposal next week
- We were going to have important BIRD work done by the next IBIS release
- Bob: It might be a problem getting into 6.0, maybe it would be 6.1
- Arpad: Our new approach was to have scheduled releases
- Bob: We should resolve all AMI BIRDs
- Ambrish: Our big issue is what to have for an analog BIRD
- [External Model] should be workable
- Bob: 3 vendors support it and 3 don't
- Arpad: Walter has an issue with that approach, and there may be ways to fix it
- Ambrish: We want use s-params, that has worked well
- Radek: We were thinking of not using [External Model], but something similar
- The problem with [External Model] is that it is a total replacement
- Arpad: An AMI subckt would work well using IBIS-ISS
- Radek: Agree
- Mike: We might get somewhere by trimming down BIRDs that have too much
- Mostly we need to vote down some BIRDs
- Bob: We have been voting on amendments to BIRDs
- Arpad: We might create a simplification to the [External Model] approach
- Bob: Do we need a long term solution or would short term do?
- Ambrish: We should not take shortcuts
- Mike: The longer term general solutions have the problem that [Model] is not
differential
- Ambrish: The problem is that vendors are not making models
- Arpad: Walter believes EMD solves this, but that is a gobbledlygook approach
Arpad: Hopefully we can resume redriver discussions with Fangyi on board
- Radek: He will be back next week
- Ambrish: We can discuss backchannel soon
- Arpad: We should reserve half the meeting for a proposal from Walter
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Next meeting: 19 Feb 2013 12:00pm PT
Next agenda:
1) Task list item discussions
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IBIS Interconnect SPICE Wish List:
1) Simulator directives
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