[ibis-macro] Minutes from the 1 May 2012 ibis-atm meeting
- From: Mike LaBonte <mike@xxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: IBIS-ATM <ibis-macro@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Wed, 2 May 2012 17:35:11 -0400
Minutes from the 1 May 2012 ibis-atm meeting are attached.
Mike
IBIS Macromodel Task Group
Meeting date: 01 May 2012
Members (asterisk for those attending):
Agilent: Fangyi Rao
* Radek Biernacki
Altera: * David Banas
Ansys: Samuel Mertens
* Dan Dvorscak
* Curtis Clark
Arrow Electronics: Ian Dodd
Cadence Design Systems: Terry Jernberg
* Ambrish Varma
Feras Al-Hawari
Celsionix: Kellee Crisafulli
Cisco Systems: Ashwin Vasudevan
Syed Huq
Ericsson: Anders Ekholm
IBM: * Greg Edlund
Intel: Michael Mirmak
LSI Logic: Wenyi Jin
Maxim Integrated Products: * Mahbubul Bari
Mentor Graphics: John Angulo
Zhen Mu
* Arpad Muranyi
Vladimir Dmitriev-Zdorov
Micron Technology: Randy Wolff
NetLogic Microsystems: Ryan Couts
Nokia-Siemens Networks: Eckhard Lenski
QLogic Corp. * James Zhou
Sigrity: Brad Brim
Kumar Keshavan
Ken Willis
SiSoft: * Walter Katz
Todd Westerhoff
Doug Burns
* Mike LaBonte
Snowbush IP: Marcus Van Ierssel
ST Micro: Syed Sadeghi
Teraspeed Consulting Group: Scott McMorrow
* Bob Ross
TI: Casey Morrison
Alfred Chong
Vitesse Semiconductor: Eric Sweetman
Xilinx: Mustansir Fanaswalla
The meeting was lead by Arpad Muranyi
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Opens:
- Arpad: There will be a meeting in Europe on the 15th
- Bob will be traveling to that
- We will plan to meet on the 15th
--------------------------
Call for patent disclosure:
- None
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Review of ARs:
- Bob propose method for parameter passing
- Bob: This may take a while
- It may be hard to retrofit AMI style parameters into the existing
structure
- Arpad: It would help to have any alternatives to BIRD 117 in writing
- Ambrish: Are AMI style parameters in the IBIS file the only concern?
- Bob: Not sure exactly what the concern is
- The tree structure may not be the answer
- Walter/Bob update Table example based on discussion requests
- Arpad: This should be deleted
- Arpad to propose IBIS spec changes to clarify ISS D2A & A2D interfaces
- Done, new BIRD proposal
- Arpad revise BIRD 117 and 118 to generalize parameter file references
- In progress
- Ambrish update BIRD 145 for pad to pin mapping and other clarifications
- Tabled, waiting for outcome of other issues
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New Discussion:
BIRD 123.3:
- Walter showed the latest BIRD draft
- Rx_Clock)Recovery_Dj formula has "2*" because rand() outputs 0.0 - 1.0.
- If it could be -1.0 to 1.0 it would match peak to peak values.
- David: Is rand() defined?
- Walter showed the definition of rand()
- Walter: It could be -1.0 to 1.0 instead of 0.0 to 1.0
- This would affect the equation expressions
- David motioned that Arpad and Walter would decide the equation format
- Bob seconded
- No one objected
AR: Arpad and Walter decide on BIRD 123.3 equation formats
- James: gaussian_rand() can go to infinity
- Do we need to discuss limiting the tails?
- Walter added a sentence about EDA tool handling of gaussian_rand().
- Arpad: We could work on this separately
- Radek: The Open Forum asked us to work on this, we can decide next week
Boundary Definition BIRD draft:
- Arpad: Do we need to define supply terminal characteristics for s-parameters?
- Radek: It's hard to imagine the impact on signal behavior
- The impedance would not affect the data
- Arpad: Would Touchstone files have power/ground connects to model capacitance?
- Radek: That is not necessary
- Walter: A distributed power network has to get the DC right because there may
be a drop
- Power to signal coupling is probably more important
- Touchstone2 was created partly to have different port impedances
- An ISS subckt with Touchstone would be up to the EDA tool
- James: Agree
- IBIS should not define what the network looks like
- Arpad: Terminations will be part of an s-parameter model
- Tools will need to know what is on the power side
- James: Impedance conversion can be done without loss
- Anything can be connected regardless of what the reference load was
- Ambrish: Why would we have to define the boundary?
- James: For the D2A and A2D it is because we have chosen to do so
- Arpad: We were talking about zeros in the s-params, there were technical
reasons
- Ambrish: The question is if we need to define anything
- James: The D side is within the scope of the spec
- If we don't define the power supply why define the converters?
- Arpad: We need to convey defaults
- James: That's OK, but the user can choose their own power supply too
- Radek: There should be an option on the voltage source
- Walter: It's that way with the B element
- Bob: In IBIS you can go up to s7p
- Walter: This will be done with external circuits that have B elements
- Bob: That is a theoretical problem, only some vendors will implement it
- Arpad: With ISS we could have an s-param that connects to power and ground
- Will people know how to generate it and use it?
- Walter: We don't have to do anything special
- Bob: A model has 7 connections but in practice they will not be used
- Vendors will find a way to handle it
- Arpad: Is this ready to submit to the Open Forum?
- Arpad showed the proposed BIRD, which is quite short.
- Bob motioned to submit the Boundary Definition BIRD to the Open Forum
- Radek seconded
- No one objected
AR: Arpad submit Boundary Definition BIRD to Open Forum
BIRD 150:
- Walter showed BIRD 150 and explained it
- Walter: It would be best if it had a new usage type: (Usage Dependency_Table)
- Output options are Match, Closest, PWL, Range
- What if a parameter has a hierarchical name?
- Should we use dot separators?
- Should we use parentheses?
- This is similar to questions about BIRD 117/118
- This draft uses curly braces for variable substitution
- These can be nested, at the request of Adge Hawes
- Recommend scheduling a detailed review time for this
- Arpad: This can be discussed in the next few meetings
- We should all look at it
- It is on the Open Forum website
BIRD 121.2:
- Walter showed BIRD 121.2
- Walter: We decided not to have Samples_Per_Bit
- This adds Supporting_Files, DLL_Path, and DLL_ID
- Recommend scheduling detailed review time for this
- Arpad: The Open Forum website only has BIRD 121.1
AR: Walter send BIRD 121.2 draft for posting on ATM website
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Next meeting: 08 May 2012 12:00pm PT
Next agenda:
1) Task list item discussions
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IBIS Interconnect SPICE Wish List:
1) Simulator directives
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