[ibis-macro] Re: Mea Culpa, my critique of the Crosstalk BIRD last week was incorrect.

  • From: Scott McMorrow <scott@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: ibis-macro@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: Tue, 08 Mar 2011 13:01:31 -0500

Only differential mode crosstalk is considered with this scheme. 
Does anyone else beside myself see a problem with this?

Since other noise sources can be included in an analog model, such as power system or termination noise as additional ports to the analog model, how would additional common mode noise sources (such as power system noise) be included in this processing model?  It seems to me that to be complete you may need to contemplate including SDC terms in addition to the SDD terms.

There is an additional question in my mind of where driver skew is included.  If the Analog model fully encapsulates the driver, then for each potential differential skew being simulated, a different analog model needs to be generated.  However, since the analog model is minimum of a 4-port, if the analog model is constructed correctly, small percentages of differential skew can be moved outside of the model for convenience.  In that case, the skew being modeled must be added to the end-to-end channel model prior to extraction of the individual Sdd transfer functions for crosstalk processing.

Scott



Scott McMorrow
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On 3/8/2011 11:59 AM, Walter Katz wrote:

Ambrish,

 

You are correct. Read once, send three times. Here is a corrected version.

 

Walter

 

From: ibis-macro-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ibis-macro-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Ambrish Varma
Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2011 11:48 AM
To: 'IBIS-ATM'
Subject: [ibis-macro] Re: Mea Culpa, my critique of the Crosstalk BIRD last week was incorrect.

 

Hi Walter,

If I am not wrong, there is a slight problem with your example.

 

Instead of

“The impulse matrix to input RxV is 

 

SDD(RxV,TxV)’ SDD(RxV,Tx1)’ SDD(Rx2,Tx2)’

 

The impulse response output of RxV is

 

SDD(RxV,TxV)’’ SDD(RxV,Tx1)’’ SDD(Rx2,Tx2)’’     (All three include RxV filter)”

 

Shouldn’t it be:

“The impulse matrix to input RxV is 

 

SDD(RxV,TxV)’ SDD(RxV,Tx1)’ SDD(RxV,Tx2)’

 

The impulse response output of RxV is

 

SDD(RxV,TxV)’’ SDD(RxV,Tx1)’’ SDD(RxV,Tx2)’’     (All three include RxV filter)”

 

Thanks,

-Ambrish.

 

Ambrish Varma   |  Member of Consulting Staff

P: 978.262.6431   www.cadence.com

 

 

 

 


From: ibis-macro-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ibis-macro-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Walter Katz
Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2011 10:53 AM
To: Arpad_Muranyi@xxxxxxxxxx; 'IBIS-ATM'
Subject: [ibis-macro] Re: Mea Culpa, my critique of the Crosstalk BIRD last week was incorrect.

 

Arpad,

 

Here it is again, one page, and some minor modifications. I do not care if this example is in the BIRD, a reference in the minutes is sufficient for me, but I have no objection if it is included. I think a request was mad for a graohic example, as opposed to a mathematical example.

 

Walter

 

From: ibis-macro-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ibis-macro-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Muranyi, Arpad
Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2011 10:39 AM
To: IBIS-ATM
Subject: [ibis-macro] Re: Mea Culpa, my critique of the Crosstalk BIRD last week was incorrect.

 

Walter,

 

Is the 2nd page “left intentionally blank” in the PDF you

sent in the attachment?  If so, would you mind removing it

and send it to us again so we could post a single page

document?  Did you want this example in the BIRD also (and

ultimately in the spec)?  Someone suggested in the previous

meetings that examples would be good, but I don’t remember

for which BIRD it was suggested.

 

Thanks,

 

Arpad

============================================================

 

From: ibis-macro-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ibis-macro-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Walter Katz
Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2011 8:59 AM
To: IBIS-ATM
Subject: [ibis-macro] Mea Culpa, my critique of the Crosstalk BIRD last week was incorrect.

 

All,

 

Mea Culpa, my critique of the Crosstalk BIRD last week was incorrect. After a careful read I totally agree with the contents of the BIRD and would support a motion to submit it to the Open Forum, with this committees concurrence.

 

Not for Naught!

 

I did document an example of a coupled system containing a single victim channel and two aggressor channels. The various elements of the Impulse Response are defined using Touchstone notation, and the input and output of the impulse response matrix for each Tx and Rx AMI_Init function call is defined by rows and columns in the differential mode, coupled sNp that represents any coupled channel.

 

I would like this document posted, and I would like the weekly minutes to note it.

 

Walter

 

 

 

 

Walter Katz

wkatz@xxxxxxxxxx

Phone 303.449-2308

Mobile 303.883-2120

 

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