[ibis-macro] Re: [IBIS] RE: Re: Your presentation at Asia Summit

  • From: "Lance Wang" <lwang@xxxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: "Syed Huq \(shuq\)" <shuq@xxxxxxxxx>, <arpad.muranyi@xxxxxxxxx>, <ibis@xxxxxxx>, <ibis-macro@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2006 21:51:11 -0500

Hi, Syed,
Thanks for the comment. This is a good question.

My answer is No. We need IBIS and need it to be better. IBIS could have
incomplete solutions or complete solutions without industry acceptances
at one specific time period. IBIS needs to have short term solutions and
studies long term solutions as well. If there is no solution from IBIS
or not in time, industry would give up IBIS quickly if there is another
solution out there. 

I don't think I am a tool vendor at this moment. I am standing on your
side to think how to get the design jobs done quickly and efficiently.
Especially, as Cisco is a technology leader all the time, you may
understand this kind of situations much easier than I can image.

Thanks,

Lance Wang
Cadence Design Systems, Inc.
 

-----Original Message-----
From: Syed Huq (shuq) [mailto:shuq@xxxxxxxxx] 
Sent: Saturday, November 11, 2006 4:23 PM
To: Lance Wang; arpad.muranyi@xxxxxxxxx; ibis@xxxxxxx;
ibis-macro@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: RE: [IBIS] RE: [ibis-macro] Re: Your presentation at Asia
Summit

Lance,

I would like add a comment to your #2 below. While all tools may not be
able to 'fully' comply to a standard, it is far better than proprietary
solutions many may be proposing. The correct approach would be to stick
to a standard and gradually add the missing features in all upcoming
versions of a tool.

If not, as Arapd mentions, might as well get rid of IBIS and go back
10-15 years. Is that your approach ?

- Syed 

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-ibis@xxxxxxx [mailto:owner-ibis@xxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Lance
Wang
Sent: Friday, November 10, 2006 9:27 PM
To: arpad.muranyi@xxxxxxxxx; ibis@xxxxxxx; ibis-macro@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [IBIS] RE: [ibis-macro] Re: Your presentation at Asia Summit

Hi, Arpad,
I would like to point out two things:
1. Every standard needs to be a good helper to solve real industry
problems. If not, there is no life for it. What if standard development
speed is slower than technology growing speed, please remember there is
no way to let industry wait for it. And the reality is we will never
catch the technology growing. So, seeking other solutions is the common
way industry will go.
2. Almost there is no tool(s) will exactly follow the standard(s). They
may be behind with some features and may be ahead on some features as
well. Do you think the AMS tools you used are exactly followed AMS
standard?

Regards,

Lance Wang
Cadence Design Systems, Inc.
 

-----Original Message-----
From: ibis-macro-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:ibis-macro-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Muranyi, Arpad
Sent: Friday, November 10, 2006 8:09 PM
To: ibis@xxxxxxx; ibis-macro@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [ibis-macro] Re: Your presentation at Asia Summit

Ian,

I think your observation in the last paragraph of your message is
correct, but this is exactly the problem.  Whether we make this practice
legal in IBIS or not is not the issue.  The issue is that these
proprietary solutions only work with their corresponding proprietary
tools.  IBIS was started and motivated exactly to eliminate that
situation.  These requests you and Lance are talking about is going in
the exact opposite direction of the original goal IBIS was invented for.
We might as well get rid of IBIS and all other efforts to have any
industry standard modeling languages (*-AMS) then...

Arpad
=====================================================================




-----Original Message-----
From: Dodd, Ian [mailto:ian_dodd@xxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Friday, November 10, 2006 2:52 PM
To: Muranyi, Arpad; ibis@xxxxxxx; ibis-macro@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: RE: [ibis-macro] Re: Your presentation at Asia Summit

Arpad,

I want to support the customer to be provided with the best solutions.

I have said many times, that I believe AMS is the best technical
solution for full circuit simulation of the newer technologies.
Unfortunately, there are two barriers to AMS adoption: the first is
getting the majority of the EDA vendors to make their best technology
available in their SI tools, the second is the training of model
creators to use a new languages. Progress is being made on both these
fronts, but it is not as fast as I would like to see.

Switching from the AMS issue to SPICE:

I think we have all agreed that for us to try to create a standard for
SPICE is not a fruitful activity. 

I do believe that SI tools should be able to pass parameters to SPICE
syntax sub-circuits that represent the behavior of IBIS components. The
SI tools that implement this feature will have to know the exact syntax
(and parameter data types) to be used for each simulator that is
supported.

Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe that at least two SI tool
vendors already have proprietary enhancements to allow parameters to be
passed to SPICE sub-circuits.

Ian
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