Walter, After reading your comments, I'm more satisfied with the document. Otherwise it's hard to understand some things. Still, I have a few remaining suggestions, shown in a few additional comments. Vladimir From: ibis-macro-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ibis-macro-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Walter Katz Sent: Tuesday, August 02, 2011 5:00 PM To: Muranyi, Arpad; 'IBIS-ATM' Subject: [ibis-macro] Re: Comments on BIRD 123.2.2 from Mentor Arpad, I am including my response to Vladimir's comments in the enclosed document. I stand by my earlier statement that I believe the current specification defines each parameter mathematically precisely and indicates how the parameters are to be used in either the statistical or time domain simulations. I would not object to adding additional words would be helpful to explain the precise mathematical definitions with "C" code or other standard statistical function definitions. Walter From: Muranyi, Arpad [mailto:Arpad_Muranyi@xxxxxxxxxx] Sent: Tuesday, August 02, 2011 5:55 PM To: Walter Katz; 'IBIS-ATM' Subject: RE: [ibis-macro] Re: Comments on BIRD 123.2.2 from Mentor Walter, Did you look at the comments Vladimir inserted in the attached Word document? I think addressing those would be a good start in this discussion. But there are some specifics even in the body of the email from Vladimir: "The Bird does not seem to be logically complete (does not cover all cases, such as Time domain and Statistical flow), or does not provide all necessary parameters affecting the results (such as either giving frequency content of Tx Gaussian jitter, or making it defined as white uncorrelated jitter, etc.) " Thanks, Arpad ======================================================== From: Walter Katz [mailto:wkatz@xxxxxxxxxx] Sent: Tuesday, August 02, 2011 4:45 PM To: Muranyi, Arpad; 'IBIS-ATM' Subject: RE: [ibis-macro] Re: Comments on BIRD 123.2.2 from Mentor Arpad, Vladimir, There was great effort to define each of the parameters in strict mathematical terms. Please indicate specific parameters that the BIRD does not either define mathematically precisely, or indicate how the parameters are to be used in either the statistical or time domain simulations. Walter From: ibis-macro-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ibis-macro-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Muranyi, Arpad Sent: Tuesday, August 02, 2011 4:43 PM To: IBIS-ATM Subject: [ibis-macro] Re: Comments on BIRD 123.2.2 from Mentor Walter, Here is the email (with attachment) I mentioned in the ATM meeting today. There was no response to it since I posted it. I think it would be good to get some discussion going on these questions/comments. Thanks, Arpad From: ibis-macro-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ibis-macro-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Muranyi, Arpad Sent: Friday, July 01, 2011 11:53 AM To: IBIS-ATM Subject: [ibis-macro] Comments on BIRD 123.2.2 from Mentor Walter and All, I am forwarding Vladimir's comments on BIRD 123.2.2 to this list for discussion. Please look at his comments which are in the attached Word document. Since Vladimir is also on this email list, please direct your answers, questions and comments to him. (I don't want to be the middle man in such conversations...). The general problem is ambiguity of given definitions when it comes to implementation in EDA tool. The Bird does not seem to be logically complete (does not cover all cases, such as Time domain and Statistical flow), or does not provide all necessary parameters affecting the results (such as either giving frequency content of Tx Gaussian jitter, or making it defined as white uncorrelated jitter, etc.) Thanks, Arpad ============================================================