Hi Todd, While I agree with you that "Supporting_Files" could be useful for ami-code to operate fully - but I am still not convinced as to what prevents it from being part of 'EXTERNAL-MODEL' - Probably, what I need is a better example than what is in BIRD-121 that clearly shows how these support-files are to be used by ami-code; and that why it needs to be reserved-parameter. Rgds ..kukal From: ibis-macro-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ibis-macro-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Todd Westerhoff Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2011 6:53 PM To: 'IBIS-ATM' Subject: [ibis-macro] Re: BIRD121: New AMI params (Supporting_Files) in context of BIRD116 Arpad & Kukal, Walter is out of the office for a few days, so I thought I'd answer this one for him. The applicability of Supporting_Files isn't limited to supplying analog model data. There are models that have side data files to support their filtering function, and models that have other executables they call to perform calculations for them. In both cases, the "Supporting_Files" mean nothing to the AMI simulator, but must be imported into the project (and put in the proper location) for the model to operate properly. The example provided in BIRD 121 | (Supporting_Files (Usage Info)(Type String) | (List "my_stuff_dir" "m1.s4p" "m2.s4p" "m3.s4p") | (Description "Additional files that support this model") | ) Included a directory called "my_stuff_dir" for this reason. Todd. ________________________ Todd Westerhoff VP, Software Products SiSoft 6 Clock Tower Place, Suite 250 Maynard, MA 01754 (978) 461-0449 x24 twesterh@xxxxxxxxxx<mailto:twesterh@xxxxxxxxxx> www.sisoft.com<http://www.sisoft.com> From: ibis-macro-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ibis-macro-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Muranyi, Arpad Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2011 1:56 AM To: IBIS-ATM Subject: [ibis-macro] Re: BIRD121: New AMI params (Supporting_Files) in context of BIRD116 Kukal, I should really let Walter respond to this, but since I know he is out for a couple of days, I will give my understanding of it. As far as I can tell, Supporting_Files is for the tool, not the model (Usage Info). For this reason, it would make sense to make it a Reserved Parameter, because in that section we can spell out what it means and what the tool should do with it. Model_Specific parameters can't be explained by the specification, because their meaning is specific to each model and only the model maker knows what should be done with them. But Supporting_Files is not solely designed for the channel characterization files, as you see it because of the example. I agree, analog model files could/should be included through other mechanisms, which is the way I am doing it in my analog modeling BIRDs, but you have to keep in mind that Walter's (natural) interest is to support his own analog modeling BIRD (122) where this type of model inclusions may be necessary. But this is just a "bias" on the examples, not the only purpose of this parameter. If we end up voting down BIRD 122 and go with the other BIRDs, we may want to change these examples, but the rest of this BIRD may still be OK. Thanks, Arpad =============================================================== From: Taranjit Kukal [mailto:kukal@xxxxxxxxxxx] Sent: Monday, February 21, 2011 10:47 PM To: Muranyi, Arpad; IBIS-ATM Subject: RE: [ibis-macro] Re: BIRD121: New AMI params (Supporting_Files) in context of BIRD116 Hi Arpad, Thanks for following up on this. My point here is that we should not be needing "Supporting_Files" as a key ami parameter. Such needed files can always become part of Model_Specific section and can have any parameter-name depending on how ami-code wants to use such files . If these supporting files are NOT to be used by AMI-code but are meant for use for Analog-channel characterization (as it seems to be the case for the example where s4p files look to be representing package or onchip sparams) then these have to be tackled in EXTERNAL_MODEL / ISS - Use of such s-param files in ami is an overkill and defeats the purpose of ISS. rgds ..kukal ________________________________ From: ibis-macro-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ibis-macro-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Muranyi, Arpad Sent: Sunday, February 20, 2011 10:35 PM To: IBIS-ATM Subject: [ibis-macro] Re: BIRD121: New AMI params (Supporting_Files) in context of BIRD116 Kukal, Correct me if I misunderstood your comments on BIRD 121. To follow up on my last reply I brought the question up in one of the last ATM meetings and found out that the "Supporting_Files" AMI parameter can have file and/or directory entries. | "Supporting_Files" is an AMI parameter of Type String, Usage Info, Format List | that contains a list of the files the model requires in addition to the DLL or | shared object file. In the specified List, each String is the relative path | from the .ibs file directory to one supporting file or directory. | | Example: | | (Supporting_Files (Usage Info)(Type String) | (List "my_stuff_dir" "m1.s4p" "m2.s4p" "m3.s4p") | (Description "Additional files that support this model") | ) So this parameter may be used as a "search path" as well as "file pointer". Please let us know if you have more questions or comments on this topic. Thanks, Arpad ============================================================= From: ibis-macro-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ibis-macro-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Muranyi, Arpad Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2011 3:08 AM To: IBIS-ATM Subject: [ibis-macro] Re: BIRD121: New AMI params (Supporting_Files) in context of BIRD116 Kukal, Thanks for the clarification. My understanding of BIRD 121 is that this is the equivalent of the "search path" in HSPICE or similar tools. This is not where the files are instantiated. In light of that, we may need to discuss whether it is appropriate to include file names instead of just path names, but we didn't get to a detailed discussion on this BIRD yet. Thanks, Arpad ================================================================== From: Taranjit Kukal [mailto:kukal@xxxxxxxxxxx] Sent: Monday, January 17, 2011 8:20 AM To: Muranyi, Arpad; IBIS-ATM Subject: RE: [ibis-macro] Re: BIRD121: New AMI params (Supporting_Files) in context of BIRD116 Hi Arpad, What I meant is that the BIRD116 covers s-parameters as part of [External Model] and that is the right place-holder. Even if AMI code needs to work in conjunction with Spice files (or s-param files), then those files need to be either under [External Model] OR should be referred through model-parameter (Not reserved) in .ami file. The inclusion of s-parameters as part of AMI section (.ami file) with use of 'Supporting_Files' Reserved-keyword is not required. AMI should not hold anything other than ami-code related parameters. rgds ..kukal ________________________________ From: ibis-macro-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ibis-macro-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Muranyi, Arpad Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2011 10:41 PM To: IBIS-ATM Subject: [ibis-macro] Re: BIRD121: New AMI params (Supporting_Files) in context of BIRD116 Kukal, I would like you to clarify what you are saying here because it is not clear what you are referring to in your last sentence: "we do not need this anymore" Does this refer to BIRD 121 mentioned in the subject line, or are you talking about not needing BIRD 116? Thanks, Arpad =========================================================== From: ibis-macro-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ibis-macro-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Taranjit Kukal Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2011 1:06 AM To: IBIS-ATM Subject: [ibis-macro] BIRD121: New AMI params (Supporting_Files) in context of BIRD116 Hi, All supporting files (s-params or otherwise) should be scope of [External Model] - These s-param files do not have anything to do with AMI C-code. The fact that BIRD116 covers s-params as part of [External Model] and allows working of same in conjunction with AMI, we do not need this anymore. thoughts? rgds ..kukal Taranjit Kukal | Product Engineering Architect P: 91 120 3984000 www.cadence.com<http://www.cadence.com/>