[ibis-macro] Re: BIRD 121.1 discussion
- From: <fangyi_rao@xxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <wkatz@xxxxxxxxxx>, <kwillis@xxxxxxxxxxx>, <Arpad_Muranyi@xxxxxxxxxx>, <ibis-macro@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2011 16:18:17 -0600
Hi, Walter;
Some of the supporting files used by IBM models are in CWD.
Consider the case that a model vendor provides two models, A and B. Model A
needs to access a file named file_A from CWD. Model B needs to access another
file named file_B from CWD. Both models also access a third file named
file_common from the path defined by DLL_Path. A user who runs separate
simulations on the two models will set up the following file structure.
CWD1 (for simulation on model A)
file_A
CWD2 (for simulation on model B)
file_B
DLL_Path (for both simulations)
file_common
A related issue with the file structure suggested in BIRD121 is that for
multiple models (form the same vendor) to share a supporting file, user will
have to place all the .ibs, .ami and dll files of all models and their
supporting files under the same DLL_Path directory. Users can't put files
belong to different models under different directory unless they place a copy
of the shared file in each directory.
Regards,
Fangyi
-----Original Message-----
From: ibis-macro-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ibis-macro-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of Walter Katz
Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2011 12:00 PM
To: RAO,FANGYI (A-USA,ex1); kwillis@xxxxxxxxxxx; Arpad_Muranyi@xxxxxxxxxx;
ibis-macro@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [ibis-macro] Re: BIRD 121.1 discussion
Fangyi,
1. Your interpretation of 1. is correct. I tried to clarify this in the
121.2 I sent out earlier today.
2. All of the vendors that we are aware of that use supporting files have
agreed to the structure suggested by BIRD 121 (TI and IBM). I believe that
it is the only logical way to deliver such files with a .ibs, .dll, and
.ami set. Can you give a reasonable scenario where the supporting files
are in CWD?
Walter
-----Original Message-----
From: fangyi_rao@xxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:fangyi_rao@xxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2011 2:31 PM
To: kwillis@xxxxxxxxxxx; wkatz@xxxxxxxxxx; Arpad_Muranyi@xxxxxxxxxx;
ibis-macro@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: RE: [ibis-macro] Re: BIRD 121.1 discussion
Hi, All;
1. The BIRD didn't spell out how a user is expected to arrange the file
structure for a model that specifies Supporting_File and DLL_Path. I think
this is one of reasons for some confusions in this discussion. Based on
Walter's earlier email, I guess the intent is that DLL_Path defines the
directory where all .ibs, .ami and .dll reside, and all supporting file
paths specified by Supporting_File are relative to this directory.
(Correct me if I am wrong, Walter)
2. Will all model vendors and EDA vendors agree on such file structure
suggested by BIRD121? How do we support models that have some supporting
files in a location different from DLL_Path such as CWD?
Regards,
Fangyi
-----Original Message-----
From: ibis-macro-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:ibis-macro-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Ken Willis
Sent: Monday, July 11, 2011 6:31 PM
To: 'Walter Katz'; Arpad_Muranyi@xxxxxxxxxx; 'IBIS-ATM'
Subject: [ibis-macro] Re: BIRD 121.1 discussion
Hi Walter,
Sorry for the delay. Responses below.
Thanks,
Ken Willis
Sigrity, Inc.
860-871-7070
kwillis@xxxxxxxxxxx
-----Original Message-----
From: Walter Katz [mailto:wkatz@xxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Thursday, July 07, 2011 7:11 AM
To: kwillis@xxxxxxxxxxx; Arpad_Muranyi@xxxxxxxxxx; 'IBIS-ATM'
Subject: RE: [ibis-macro] Re: BIRD 121.1 discussion
Ken,
1. How does the EDA tool know to insert the full path to the DLL for Model
Specific parameters?
KW > You can make a Model_Specific parameter called "AMI_path" or
something using a string, where the user can define the full path when
they start up the project.
2. What if the IBIS models are distributed into multiple folders in the
EDA tools library management systems?
KW > I assume that "IBIS models" means the IO circuit models, not the
algorithmic (ex. DLL/AMI) models. I don't see why that is any different
than any other models you have in your project for the interconnect.
Somehow you have to build up a topology or circuit, and assign models to
the different elements in it. All the EDA tools can do that, so I don't
understand the issue.
Walter
-----Original Message-----
From: ibis-macro-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:ibis-macro-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Ken Willis
Sent: Thursday, July 07, 2011 7:03 AM
To: Arpad_Muranyi@xxxxxxxxxx; 'IBIS-ATM'
Subject: [ibis-macro] Re: BIRD 121.1 discussion
Hi Arpad,
I agree with you that the most straightforward approach is to simply
specify the full path. Users would go in and set this once for their
project.
I also don't see the real need for DLL_Path at all. When the user assigns
an AMI model in their project, the tool already has to know the path to
the DLL. Looking locally (in the same directory as the DLL) for supporting
files should be default behavior anyway for the DLL. If the specific model
has a bunch of supporting files in some specific directory structure, then
you can easily use a Model_Specific parameter to point to some
"other_stuff"
directory where it will find those supporting files. But that is a
Model_Specific thing. We don't have to make it a universal keyword.
So to me we already have all the support needed in the spec to handle
this.
We need to stop inventing new Reserved_Parameters all the time to do
things we can already do. The spec is getting complicated enough as-is,
and new Reserved_Parameters should be added only when needed. I don't
think we need to in this case.
Thanks,
Ken Willis
Sigrity, Inc.
860-871-7070
kwillis@xxxxxxxxxxx
-----Original Message-----
From: ibis-macro-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:ibis-macro-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Muranyi, Arpad
Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2011 10:31 AM
To: IBIS-ATM
Subject: [ibis-macro] BIRD 121.1 discussion
Hello,
We were running out of time yesterday, so I didn't continue with my
question, but I still feel that my question was not answered adequately
about DLL_Path.
It was stated that for the model it is irrelevant whether this is a
relative or full path.
It was also stated that relative paths don't work when different parts of
the project are on different drives, so if an EDA tool passes a relative
path to the DLL in such a situation it should be considered a bug.
Having said that, we do we want to put in the spec the option of passing a
relative path to the model?
Why shouldn't the spec say full path only?
I feel if we put relative path in the spec, we are opening the door for
the EDA vendors to write bugs.
Are we really trying to encourage that?
Could someone please explain why it is necessary to put relative path in
the spec if it opens the possibility for problems?
Thanks,
Arpad
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