On Sunday, Sep 21, 2003, at 08:00 America/Los_Angeles, Adi Oanca wrote:
From: "Scott Mansfield"Huh? How is comparing GNOME and KDE relevant to our project? Did I miss something here?
Maybe lots of articles? :-)
Forgive my impudence but that's like the proverbial "Apples and Oranges" comparison. KDE and GNOME: each of these OSS projects strive towards achieving a common goal in their own way.
True! GNOME by simplicity, KDE by feature availability!
IM[not so]HO these projects attempt to clone the 'doze "experience" in their own interpretation of same.
Hmm... doesn't OBOS or Linux or Windows or Solaris tries to do the same
thing? A OS...
OBOS? It's about empowerment.
Right! By simplicity!
Correct me if I'm wrong here and PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE don't be shy about it.
Generally speaking from a LONG-time experience as an embedded U*ix/Linux/OSS and recent initiate to OBOS developer: I can carry out whatever tasks I see fit within any "Desktop's" sandbox that are at my disposal. I don't give a large rodent's posterior about what's different in the execution, as long as the the end results are consistent. Give me a pointy-clicky thing that I can grok and a large black window with readable monochrome-green text to type stuff in to and I'll crank out code till the end of time, so to speak -- IOW: I'm one happy developer.
:-))) Do you think a user cares about that!? I think Linux is your environment! BeOS is to gentile for you...
BTW, you like gdb more than DDD, don't you? :-)
Carrying this metaphor to conclusion, we shouldn't try to constrain our
customers to what we as a group perceive as the "Best Way" to do things
-- something that I feel you seek to attain by restricting our
customer's tasks by abstraction through a GUI.
If you don't, users will get confused! A balance MUST be found between
usability and availability.
For a CLI geek that you are, I not surprised you think that way. I bet
you love dot files! :-) Users don't!
If you have a look at the Terminal, you'll see many things have a CLI counterpart, even the CD player. (hint: /bin/play)
Does Windows have such a thing?
Yes windoze does. Please pardon me, I feel dirty for even the
slightest M$ advocation here, but one can launch any 'doze program from
the CLI. [Ugh. Feel dirty. Must shower now. *shudder*]
Really? I didn't know about that! Can you please give me the path to
Regarding Microsoft... beside their monopoly policy... they did lots of
It's also about scripting...
Yeah, for lazy programmers! :-)
Playing the devil's advocate here...
Hey! Wait a minute!!! I make my living by making other programmer's jobs easier. What's wrong with using a script to carry out a repetitive, complex task?
Nothing, really! ... if you use special scripting support like BeAPI
But if you use a background session to carry out operations through CLI
apps, THEN I can say that what you do is a POOR/CHEAP product, and more... a
That can be done, and work real nice... but I DON'T want to see that in
I see in BeOS, a remarkable design, made from scratch, and for that I
LOVE IT; it's NOT like Linux where a lots of apps are built one above other.
...remember the discussion we had 2-3 weeks ago about making the GUI
nicer! We all agreed that for making a thing for OBOS you must do it the
OBOS is will be USER friendly, NOT geek friendly!
Is reproducibility cast to the four winds? WTF? Do you run 'jam' and parse its output from a GUI app during your course as an OBOS developer? A script has the potential of being easily digestible and maintainable in a clear-text kind of way. FWIW: "Lazy" programmers don't survive long in the field before they're called to task and subsequently terminated; M$ employees notwithstanding.
Hey! That's what I don't like about some people. You say something, and
then one comes and digest all meanings of that phrase.
How the hell could I be referring to complex tasks like compilers!?
I was talking about GENERAL apps! Do you consider good a OBOS program
"ls -l | grep xxxx"
to find some files via a criteria, or use PERL regular expressions
I consider this POOR programming. If you want to do one thing right you
might want to search the net for a, possibly free, library that supports
easy manipulation of strings or one that works very nice with regular
expressions! That's a good product; a product that comes with incorporated
features, not relying on outside help.
A *smart* developer uses the best tools at her/his disposal to carry out said dev's final objective in the most efficient, reproducible manner possible without prejudice to the vehicle used to reach the finished product.
I *totally* agree! But, if one's "most efficient, reproducible manner"
is scripting with CLI apps, then... he's not "A *smart* developer ".