I know it's not as fun flaming someone in private instead of on-list, but please do consider this alternative. It's good to find common ground on what OBOS is supposed to be about, but too much discussion is counter-productive, keeping developers (such as yourselves) from actually producing code. Let's focus our resources on recreating the BeOS for now. It's more than enough. An R5-ish appearance is definitely not the end of the world if we're serious about continuing this project beyond R1. If you feel creative, make apps. We need more real apps, especially that elusive killer variety. /Jonas Sundström. www.kirilla.com