[haiku] Re: Suggestions to change double click on window title behaviour

  • From: Eddy Groen <eddyspeeder@xxxxxxxxx>
  • To: haiku@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2009 23:20:27 +0100

> I'm certain BeOS was awesome, especially compared to the OS:es of that
> time, but I'm even more sure that it wasn't perfect.
>

Yes I absolutely agree with you there.



> It also has 3 hidden functions that you activate by different click
> combinations. The only hidden function I can think of that's widely accepted
> is right click to open a context menu. Obviously they're all useful, but I
> don't think it's good UI design unless you're targeting power users or
> something.
>

Mostly what you want is to have a UI that's as clear as possible, with the
least amount of clogging by buttons, graphics and whatnot (so I'm not for
the "hide" button). Some power user options therefore need to be hidden. I
see no problem here in keeping the window as it is, offering ample
functionality to the novice user and having more extensive operations
enabled for more experienced users.


I don't quite agree. You can't just say every design choice in an OS is
> "philosophy" and render it immune to evaluation, critique and comment.
>

Absolutely true, it must not be used as a catch-all, but we must be somewhat
pragmatic in this respect. I don't like a lot of things in Windows, but to
some extent I must accept that things are the way they are. It extends to a
lot of fields. I like Nikon D-SLRs better than Canon, because Nikon is more
button-oriented, while Canon focuses more on menus. And that's fine; I can
understand that people want to use Canon, or Windows, because they prefer
one approach over the other.



> Well if workspaces is supposed to be an integral part of how you use Haiku,
> it really needs better tools for using them.
>

I've been an advocate for advanced workspacing for years. DarkWyrm wrote an
insightful piece on it for the OpenBeOS project years ago. I've actually
asserted around 2004 that in order for Zeta/OBOS to maintain its pole
position when it comes to workspaces, something will have to be done. We now
see that in many aspects, the Mac OS has beaten the BeOS.

Thanks for the Gnome tip, by the way. I have not seen it yet, so I will
check it out!



> Let me put it this way. Double clicking things in just about any OS,
> including Haiku, usually opens stuff. Hiding something is almost the
> opposite action and thus I think it's inconsistent.
>

Now THERE is an argument that works! I'm serious, so don't take this as
sarcasm. I do, however, need some time to consider this. Consistency is a
major topic for me. Double-clicking does work in OSX to minimize windows,
but that's about the only example I can come up with that differs from the
consistency. Good point!!


That might be true for how software is used in a professional or educational
> environment, but regular users? No way. I've never met anyone that actually
> reads software manuals before clicking random buttons, googling, asking
> someone or giving up.
>

Well, pleased to meet you ;-) Late June I bought a Mac, and after having
used Zeta (a closed-source BeOS derivate that is now no longer available), I
felt I should read a book on it as well. I bought "Mac OS X Leopard: Beyond
the Manual". I'm primarily one who tries to figure it out on his own, but
for some additional features, tweaks and settings, this book was priceless!


Admittedly, I haven't been around Haiku for long, but I thought it wanted to
> be an OS you just turned on and used barely noticing it's presense, rather
> than some complex system that you actually have to read a frickin manual to
> use.
>

Haha! Well for me it's been a few years since I first started using it, but
I indeed remember that I had the same "huh?" experience when a window first
disappeared. I may disagree with you on the solution, but don't let it stop
you from carrying in points of improvement that long-time users don't see
anymore.

In short:
- I still propose the message a user gets when a window first disappears
(see my previous email), as I do acknowledge & understand Johan's issue
here;
- I personally don't see a merit in adding a hide button to all windows, but
would like to invite others on this list to comment;
- Johan's point about (in)consistent behavior seems to make sense - I will
think about it and get back at it in a few days.

Eddy

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