On 2003-11-12 at 16:14:39 [-0500], François Revol wrote: > Hey, everyone cool down ! Definately! :-) > May I remind you that this list, just like the other ones, > is a *development* mailing list, not a > political/philosophical/troll/os-war newsgroup. And may I add that (nearly) every mailing list has a topic. Off Topic means, well, just that - that the people who have congragated on a list are all together to discuss a particular thing. In our case, that is the ***CURRENT*** development of OBOS. We made a specific list for future reaching topics. The point of this is not to curtail anyone's freedom. The point of this is for focus. This list is for people interested in and focused on the current release. If that doesn't interest you, this is probably not where you want to be. GE might be the right place for you. I am on that list, as are Ingo, Axel and others. GE is intended to be an archive. Some motivated person (HINT) could go through there and cull all of the good ideas into a nice list for the devs to save them time and effort post R1. > That doesn't mean discussion is forbidden, just it's off topic. > So at least, in that case, the Netiquette asks off topic mails > at least to be marked as such, like adding [OT] in the subject, > and as much as possible, taken off list. I don't want to beat people up for posting something off topic on this list. And I appreciate the people who are helping with the moderation! > I too have an opinion on all the OSes that has been listed in the > past weeks, but i don't discuss that on the mailing list. There are > plenty of other places for that, newsgroups, IRC, BeShare... > Here it's a development ml, so please stay on topic, and help us keep > the S/N ratio to a normal value. This list has always been very high S/N. We work hard to keep it that way. Realize, please, everyone, that the higher we keep that, the more the people who are doing the work will stay here. Be employees left bedevtalk because the S/N ratio got to be so bad. That is *NOT* what we want to have happen here. Now. Having said all of that, dealing a little with the actual content of what was said: Understand and realize that you face a massive, uphill battle trying to get changes into R1. The dev team needs no new work, ATM, and they and I will resist new features pretty strongly. I am sorry if this causes discomfort to anyone. Every OSS project has a design cut off for each version. Linux is no different, neither is BSD. Nor are we. That is the nature of software development - you can't change the specs at will and keep the project on track for a release. As far as our focus - BeOS was intended to be a desktop system. Through the various incarnations of the Be Marketing Machine, that desktop system had different emphasis points (media, etc). But it was always a desktop. Does the world need another server? I (we?) don't think so. Linux, 3 flavors of BSD, OS X Server, Windows 2003 Server and probably others fill that niche. What the world really doesn't have, IMHO, is a desktop done the Right Way. Part of that is Media related. I consider Media to be the primary subset of Desktop that I think will be interested. And, to be honest, Media is a huge part of *ANYONE'S* desktop experience these days. There are 100 different areas that need to be changes and updated for R2. We are *well* aware of that. GE has had thousands of messages along those lines. And we have our own frustrations with things and plans, too. Post R1, we (the dev team and I) will get together and put together a feature list/roadmap/plan. It will be published when we have it altogether. Input from GE, from our experience and any other good inspiration will go into that plan. If you want more say in the project, help more. I don't know how to be clearer than that. The people who influence the decisions the most are the ones with the most work product. I read their emails first. I weigh their decisions more. Why? Because they have blood, sweat and tears invested. That may seem wrong or unfair to some. I am sorry if you feel that way - the point is not to punish, but to reward. Please, any followup send directly to me.