Hi Stippi, Stephan Assmus wrote:
Axel Dörfler wrote: > Hi Jorge, > > "Jorge G. Mare (a.k.a. Koki)" <koki@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: > >> My entry to the admin group was NOT easy by any measure. As a matter >> of >> fact, only after I started the sort of heated debate that some are >> chastising me for here did I get the attention of the admins. And >> some >> of the points that I made in the course of that debate even generated >> some hostility towards me, so the "we welcome you with open arms as >> long >> as you want to do hard work" is not necessarily true. >> > > That's not really how I perceived it, though. You were invited pretty > quickly, and then the discussion started, because you wanted some clear > set of rules to follow. Where you may have seen hostility, I only saw > misunderstandings - and certainly not because you were new to the > group. > > I don't think it was mere perception. > > I had to pass the "what is your problem?"... > > http://www.freelists.org/archives/openbeos/08-2006/msg00174.html > > ...and "Jorge, stop pretending Haiku is something it isn't..." ... > > http://www.freelists.org/archives/openbeos/08-2006/msg00176.html > > ...hostility tests, as well as the "we don't need just talk"... > > http://www.freelists.org/archives/openbeos/08-2006/msg00173.html > > ...skepticism test.This is just exceptional. When you first wrote you had a hard time to get on the admin team, I really thought my memory is failing me, I really didn't remember anything like that. I thought it was pretty baffling of you to twist what happened to support your argument. I felt a bit bad because I didn't try to dig anything up from back than, partly because I thought it would be daunting and time consuming, but also because I didn't even know what to look for, because I remembered no painful discussion about you becomming an admin. But now you come with *this* as proof of your statements? What in the world is going on?!? The last email you quote is from me. It is about *me* having made a mistake and telling *you* how I am handling it. What has that got to do with anything?!?
You were actually responding to this: http://www.freelists.org/archives/openbeos/08-2006/msg00170.html...and telling me that "Haiku needs doers more than (seemingly) clear decisions" which, to me, sounded like you were skeptical about the points that I had made with regards to good communications in my post that you were replying to.
> For the devs who are the absolute and perhaps irreversible majority of > the admin group, a democratic model may seem like a fair, ideal or > acceptable mechanism they can work with. But for the only marketeer who > always had all the odds against him, democracy just meant being less > efficient and having to bear an excessive burden.Yeah right, you "always had all the odds against" you. People agreed with you, some didn't, others you convinced. At the time you left, I thought so much about all this, but by now, I'm convinced it is simply an ego issue. Like always when something like this happened. The true problem is that you are incapable of compromise. Plus you cannot take critique. Same problem with anyone else who left (just in case you bring that one up again as "argument").
By the nature of the people that surrounded me at the admin group (all developers), it is fair to say that the odds (NOT the individuals!) were against me when dealing with marketing issues. I never said that it was a dev versus non-dev situation, or that the devs were my enemies, but simply that the imbalance put a burden on me that was too big.
The admin group environment, which is actually great for developers, hindered my effectiveness and productivity. That's all. PLEASE, do not take it as "it's the admins fault" (or "it's Jorge's fault" for that matter). It just did not work *for me*. Period. I gave my reasons to the admins in the hopes that maybe they could find some hints on how they could be more accommodating to non-developers in the future. Nothing more, nothing less.
Unfortunately, for some reason some of the admins still don't understand my motivations, and take it as if I were blaming them for my departure. THIS IS NOT THE CASE. I can see why they could take it that way, but some of the admins did understand and even sympathized with my situation, including Michael who proposed making changes to avoid similar situations in the future, so it does not look like I miscommunicated my thoughts. Or did I? :)
You know, if I really had a big ego, what I would have done was stay as an admin, if not for anything else but just to keep my name in the Haiku Hall of Fame (About Haiku window, admin listing, etc.). After all, once you are in, a few +1/-1 emails to the admin list and an occasional appearance on IRC meetings saying "oh, sorry guys, I'm so busy these days..." seems to do the trick (which I think is a problem, but that's another topic). :P
> But since you bring up the issue of democracy, if you really wanted to > make the admin group truly democratic, then the admins would have to be > chosen by their constituents, that is, the community, and not between > themselves. :) Plain nonsense.
Care to explain why it is nonsense? Cheers, Koki