Hi Jorge, "Jorge G. Mare (a.k.a. Koki)" <koki@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: > My entry to the admin group was NOT easy by any measure. As a matter > of > fact, only after I started the sort of heated debate that some are > chastising me for here did I get the attention of the admins. And > some > of the points that I made in the course of that debate even generated > some hostility towards me, so the "we welcome you with open arms as > long > as you want to do hard work" is not necessarily true. That's not really how I perceived it, though. You were invited pretty quickly, and then the discussion started, because you wanted some clear set of rules to follow. Where you may have seen hostility, I only saw misunderstandings - and certainly not because you were new to the group. [...] > I believe > that at the moment of deciding whether an individual should be > admitted > to the group or not, the developers end up using a set of criteria > that > may not necessarily be objective. How could the admin group be "objective"? They are as objective as a dozen or so individuals can be when they discuss things. But please note and understand that there is no "developer" archetype that only does one thing well. I doubt I am the only one who feels offended when trying to reduce him into some pigeonhole. [...] > So there is a clear and transparent process that > coders can follow (and that everyone can openly see and scrutinize) > to > become engaged and be recognized for contributions that can > potentially > lead to a decision-making position. What is the equivalent process > for, > say, a marketing person? I don't think there is one. Of course not, or else you wouldn't need any staff managers anymore. And yet, it's possible to note that you did not just make an effort, but produced valuable work. If you think that's not recognizable outside of coding you're wrong. > Axel, contrary to what you say, being part of the admin team did not > work for me; it's dynamics hindered my productivity and motivation. > Hopefully it is just me. But it seems that others have also tried and > failed in the past, so it may well be fair to say that something in > Haiku makes it difficult for non-devs to make it to the higher ranks > and > be productive, and that unless something is done, that is most likely > not going to change. There are no higher ranks within the admin group, it works purely democratic. And I won't start any online discussion on why it hindered your motivation or productivity :-) Bye, Axel.