Hello All, It is very interesting to see the direction that this thread has taken, because Haiku's paradox of open code but closed corporation is something that has bothered me for some time now. Haiku is a project that's sophistication and increased community size warrant a change in the project. Right now Haiku is awkwardly sitting in a place where it is not managed as a little company or as a community, it feels (whatever that means for you) like a club, with a few people who are members and lots and lots of guests. No matter what the guests suggest, or what they do, the decision always comes back to the actual members of the club, who are all developers. A person cannot be everything (and if you tried, you would be a very stressed individual), people do what they have a passion for, and what their experience has lead them to. Coming from a designer's perspective, I want to see Haiku design flourish so that Haiku will flourish. If Haiku is going to grow that it has to be able to grow, I hope that marketing and design don't continue to be an uphill battle forever. I do recognize how difficult it must be to release control of some aspects of the project, but it isn't feasible or wise for Haiku's growth to keep is under such tight wraps. I understand the concerns of the developers, in fact, I recently completed a project (a wiki) that was managed by developers for many end-users. Developer's want really-fast editing, lots of procedures and systems, end the end users want something that is easy to use, pleasing, and fun. There is a balance ? Haiku NEEDS to pursue that balance by incorporating individuals from more than one talent pool. Let people do what they do best and make it count for something. Haiku's code isn't the only thing that should be open ? community and corporation count too. Best Regards, Austin