[openbeos] Re: Leaving OpenBeOS : David

  • From: "Michael Phipps" <mphipps1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: openbeos@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: Sat, 21 Sep 2002 14:03:48 -0400

>Helmar,
>
>IMHO You've hit the nail on the head - first intelligent post on the 
>subject that I've seen, and possibly one of the few people to actually 
>see what David was saying.
>
>David Reid is not trying to destroy or devalue OBOS, I'm sure he'd 
>rather be proved wrong and OBOS succeed - remember he's still providing 
>the mailing list.

I 100% agree that David is not trying to destroy this project. I think that he
is more sick of people emailing him, though, than anything else.
And he has never provided us this mailing list. This mailing list is 
generously provided by freelists.org.

As far as reactions to David's comments, well, I am finishing up my "official"
reaction. But I believe that most of the people who have posted about his
thoughts are simply reflecting that what he says doesn't seem true to them.
There is probably no one more involved in the project than Axel. His opinion 
is at least as valid as David's, and more so in a way since he is still 
involved - he
can comment on what is, not just what was. 

As far as *I* know, Ithamar left because of work concerns - he got super busy 
at work
and couldn't continue to contribute. If someone *KNOWS* otherwise, I would like 
to hear
about it offlist. That is what he told me. As far as Frans, well, he brings up 
some good points,
but points from many months back.

As far as more vision and less ego... I am not sure how to respond to this.
One half of the group says that OBOS is too hard to write and will take years. 
The other half
says that we don't have enough vision. I don't get it. Are we looking too far 
ahead or not far enough?
As far as ego, well, I don't see the evidence of that, to be honest. It seems 
like if everyone doesn't
fall down in awe at every person's imparted wisdom, they are egomaniacs. Maybe 
they just
don't agree. I will speak about Axel here - I have rarely met as gifted a 
coder, and as humble a man.
Many people will say that it takes a huge ego to even start a project like 
this. That to think that I have
enough capability to lead people talented enough to write an operating system 
is hubris. Maybe.
Someone had to. No one else was. I believe that OBOS was the first. One day 
after the sellout announcement,
we had a mailing list and were forming a group. Is that overly prideful? Many 
of the Be engineers thought so.
Maybe that is the case. But still, it had to be done. And we are doing it. If 
that is wrong, then so be it.
But I would rather be wrong in running R1, be prideful in accomplishing 
something, than being all humble
and running some other OS.

>Congrats Helmar
>
>>Axel Dörfler wrote:
>>
>>> Exactly, but despite its professional presentation,
>>> David's statements are just rants,
>>
>>Be that as it may, David is not someone who would just rant
>>for the sake of it. I actually met him a couple of months
>>ago here in Cape Town (you may not know that he's a
>>professional airline pilot), and I didn't get the impression
>>he'd leave something that in many ways is dear to him if
>>there was no substance to it.
>>
>>Actually, I find it quite amazing what reaction (on this
>>list) his statement drew. I would have expected a little
>>more introspection and soul-searching, but instead (at least
>>it appears to me as) it's just put aside as a rant in which
>>certain individuals don't see much truth, and that (even if
>>it's just me) I think is dangerous, especially in the light
>>of people like Frans van Nispen and Ithamar Adema leaving
>>the team.
>>
>>Remember.... there aren't all that many people interested in
>>BeOS/OBOS, and having highly skilled folks like the three
>>mentioned leave is indeed a heavy loss.
>>
>>> (and, of course we can improve things, but that's mostly
>>> like all things could be improved - and doesn't have much 
>>> to do with what David wrote)
>>
>>If they can be improved, why aren't they improved then? 
>>
>>I also understand that not all ideas put forward are
>>feasible, but sometimes I think there is too little vision
>>present here and too much short-sightedness and
>>egocentricity. And that doesn't do anyone good, least of all
>>the project as whole.



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