Hehe.... this is really funny. Here I am, proposing something unique that could potentially lead to this project/organisation having enough cash to pay - even hire - programmers, thus almost ensuring that once things come to the crunch, the project/org can pony up no matter what (or just blow it all on beer and coffee), and before you can spell "value", it turns into a capitalism vs free software vs 'the unprivileged and exploited mass' discussion; one member felt obliged to trash the payment channel I suggested (for discussion purposes); someone else even unsubscribed from the list probably because he was low on "let someone else have his say too" skills; others were just not getting the point at all. if(!BE_TOLERANT) {exec_shell(unsubscribe);} With all the coding talk on this list, I actually liked this short interlude of divergent human expression. It showed so much more the human face of someone than a discussion about pointers, classes or icon sets. It also showed how many people really got it, and who just needed to chime in to say something. And even if I didn't like it, I respected and tolerated it. Now that we are back to normal, I trust my idea didn't make it. No hard feelings - I didn't expect anything else, to be honest. ;) Helmar (who didn't leave BeUnited because he wanted to go "commercial" but because those who were supposed to do some work there were too _unreliable_ - big difference) -- "You work seven days a week, under all this pressure, and for what? So that people can shop on the Web? Half the world is starving to death and you want to devote your life to saving people from having to get into their car and drive to the mall? That?s criminal." - Daniel Lyons?s character Reily?s girlfriend Maria in 'Dog Days' (Simon & Schuster, 1998)