[haiku] Re: 100 Haiku applications to download and try -Was BeOS compatibility
- From: Jerry Babione <jerry.babione@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: "haiku@xxxxxxxxxxxxx" <haiku@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2013 08:27:34 -0600
Adrien, You didn't read very well. I acknowledge that a Layman couldn't
handle the process. The could if (1) the simplicity of the original PKG
manager was preserved, (2) The format was make standard as the PKG
structures that do work. (3) People would remember Change for Change sake
isn't change at all...It creates more issues than it resolves. (4) This is
an old debate. I've been involved in it over the past 4 or 5 years. I
stepped away when it seemed that people were choosing to keep what worked
and not abandoning "Real and Working Applications" for something new,
untried, and that hasn't survived the test of time. Do we have a
Professional OS or do people want a Microsoft Clone that any Idiot uses
without caring how it works!
On Fri, Nov 8, 2013 at 7:59 AM, Adrien Destugues <pulkomandy@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>
> On 2013-11-08 at 14:37:05 [+0100], Jerry Babione <jerry.babione@xxxxxxxxx>
> wrote:
> > Sean, Even on alpha 4 I've installed over 100 packages. Every one came
> > from Haikuware. None have ever failed if I followed BeOS Installation
> > Protocols and Created a PKG prior to using the ZIPS. Symbolic Links and
> > some other tweaks are necessary to maintain backward compatibility. I
> kept
> > copies so I don't have to wait on a new package manager the OLD BeOS
> > Installer/Manager (Copied from BeOS Max) works beautifully. So, Why are
> we
> > reinventing the wheel? It makes little sense and wastes time and money.
> I
> > realize that the layman may have issues with Haiku installs in their
> > current state. That part of the automated process needed addressing. At
> > this point there a new PKG manager. We've wasted the money and still
> have
> > many of the same issues. This product was ready for Beta, for
> Professional
> > Use, as far as I was concerned. Now, we've a new kettle of fish to catch
> > and fry.
>
> Please just stop pretending that. There is no way people are going to
> accept
> going through all these tricks to install their software. You saidd it
> yourself, you made PKG files, using an old closed-source tool, to keep
> things
> somewhat under control. What if you use the 64-bit version of Haiku ? The
> ARM
> port ? On these, you can't run that install manager. Like all other parts
> of
> the system, we have to rewrite it for Haiku. That's our goal, and it has
> been
> our goal since the project started back in 2001.
>
> Meanwhile, other OSes have made much progress. In 2001 BeOS was racing
> again
> Windows Millenium and Mac OS 9. Would you use one of these today ? I
> certainly wouldn't. Of course, in some areas BeOS was better than the
> others,
> but it lacked some features back then, and we're now 12 years later, and we
> lack even more. Today, an OS without a proper application store just isn't
> going to work. Ubuntu has one, Android has one, iOS and Mac OS X have one.
> No
> one wants to manually download and copy library files around and mess with
> the system. Users want to download apps and get them to just work. We tried
> HaikuWare and it didn't work. Most of the apps there are broken. There are
> these SDL games that will work only if you put the gcc4 version of SDL in
> the
> GCC2 directory of your system, there are these apps bundled with an old
> version of SDL that you have to remove so it uses the more up to date one
> provided with the system, or one you compiled yourself using Haikuporter.
> There are ported apps where no one bothered to upload the patches or
> document
> the process, making updates harder than they have to be. There are several
> ports of the same app by different people, each of them with a different
> set
> of bugs and requiring a different build of Qt. There are apps with a
> separate
> version for each release of Haiku.
>
> Well, the goal of the Package Manager is to solve all this. Yes, it makes
> it
> even more visible how broken these apps were, but it doesn't break them.
> they
> already didn't work right, for the most part.
>
> I'm very happy to work with a package managed Haiku. I know that my system
> will not get corrupted because I unzip an app into /boot and it happens to
> overwrite some system files. I can get update to my apps without looking
> for
> them on the internet. I can add and remove packages at will, and go back to
> older versions if things don't go well, without losing my setting files. I
> can still download hpkg files from internet and install them, it's as easy
> as
> dropping them into a folder. And I can even still run non-packaged software
> just like I did before.
>
> I fail to see what we have lost. I hear a lot of ranting that '3000 apps
> are
> broken', but, as I said, the one I use are working just like they did
> before
> the package manager got introduced. I'm still waiting for reports on
> specific
> applications, which are the only way to investigate and fix problems, if
> any.
> And don't tell me CircleToy is an useful application, we can live without
> that or rewrite it in a matter of seconds. I'm talking about actual
> applications here.
>
> --
> Adrien.
>
>
--
Jerry Babione
Founder-Just Plain Folks Org. Inc.
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