[haiku] Re: 100 Haiku applications to download and try -Was BeOS compatibility
- From: Stephan Aßmus <superstippi@xxxxxx>
- To: haiku@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2013 15:30:48 +0100
Am 08.11.2013 um 14:59 schrieb Adrien Destugues <pulkomandy@xxxxxxxxx>:
>
> On 2013-11-08 at 14:37:05 [+0100], Jerry Babione <jerry.babione@xxxxxxxxx>
> wrote:
>> Sean, Even on alpha 4 I've installed over 100 packages. Every one came
>> from Haikuware. None have ever failed if I followed BeOS Installation
>> Protocols and Created a PKG prior to using the ZIPS. Symbolic Links and
>> some other tweaks are necessary to maintain backward compatibility. I kept
>> copies so I don't have to wait on a new package manager the OLD BeOS
>> Installer/Manager (Copied from BeOS Max) works beautifully. So, Why are we
>> reinventing the wheel? It makes little sense and wastes time and money. I
>> realize that the layman may have issues with Haiku installs in their
>> current state. That part of the automated process needed addressing. At
>> this point there a new PKG manager. We've wasted the money and still have
>> many of the same issues. This product was ready for Beta, for Professional
>> Use, as far as I was concerned. Now, we've a new kettle of fish to catch
>> and fry.
>
> Please just stop pretending that. There is no way people are going to accept
> going through all these tricks to install their software. You saidd it
> yourself, you made PKG files, using an old closed-source tool, to keep things
> somewhat under control. What if you use the 64-bit version of Haiku ? The ARM
> port ? On these, you can't run that install manager. Like all other parts of
> the system, we have to rewrite it for Haiku. That's our goal, and it has been
> our goal since the project started back in 2001.
>
> Meanwhile, other OSes have made much progress. In 2001 BeOS was racing again
> Windows Millenium and Mac OS 9. Would you use one of these today ? I
> certainly wouldn't. Of course, in some areas BeOS was better than the others,
> but it lacked some features back then, and we're now 12 years later, and we
> lack even more. Today, an OS without a proper application store just isn't
> going to work. Ubuntu has one, Android has one, iOS and Mac OS X have one. No
> one wants to manually download and copy library files around and mess with
> the system. Users want to download apps and get them to just work. We tried
> HaikuWare and it didn't work. Most of the apps there are broken. There are
> these SDL games that will work only if you put the gcc4 version of SDL in the
> GCC2 directory of your system, there are these apps bundled with an old
> version of SDL that you have to remove so it uses the more up to date one
> provided with the system, or one you compiled yourself using Haikuporter.
> There are ported apps where no one bothered to upload the patches or document
> the process, making updates harder than they have to be. There are several
> ports of the same app by different people, each of them with a different set
> of bugs and requiring a different build of Qt. There are apps with a separate
> version for each release of Haiku.
>
> Well, the goal of the Package Manager is to solve all this. Yes, it makes it
> even more visible how broken these apps were, but it doesn't break them. they
> already didn't work right, for the most part.
>
> I'm very happy to work with a package managed Haiku. I know that my system
> will not get corrupted because I unzip an app into /boot and it happens to
> overwrite some system files. I can get update to my apps without looking for
> them on the internet. I can add and remove packages at will, and go back to
> older versions if things don't go well, without losing my setting files. I
> can still download hpkg files from internet and install them, it's as easy as
> dropping them into a folder. And I can even still run non-packaged software
> just like I did before.
>
> I fail to see what we have lost. I hear a lot of ranting that '3000 apps are
> broken', but, as I said, the one I use are working just like they did before
> the package manager got introduced. I'm still waiting for reports on specific
> applications, which are the only way to investigate and fix problems, if any.
> And don't tell me CircleToy is an useful application, we can live without
> that or rewrite it in a matter of seconds. I'm talking about actual
> applications here.
Well said. But I regret the time it took you to write this. Jerry said two
things that make it impossible, at least for me, to take him seriously.
Best regards,
-Stephan
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