[haiku-inc] Re: Updating the donat-o-meter...
- From: Karl vom Dorff <karlvd@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: haiku-inc@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2014 14:14:04 -0400
On Sun, Sep 28, 2014 at 2:01 PM, pulkomandy <pulkomandy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
> > > For me it is entirely unclear what effect the bounties actually had.
> Yes,
> > > the tasks were completed, but wouldn't they have been without the
> bounties?
> > > Were the bounties an important motivator or just some nice but
> unnecessary
> > > bonus?
> > >
> >
> > Well, look at it this way, most developers mentioned above made little
> > contribution to Haiku since completing their bounties, so it would be
> more
> > logical to assume it was a motivating factor rather than an 'unnecessary
> > bonus'.
>
> Without asking the people who actually received the money, we may
> equally assume they felt the reward was way too low and left the project
> with a "never again" feeling. If you want to know, just ask these 3 guys
> what they think about it.
>
Sure, we may also equally assume that they were in a pinch for money and
needed the funds, later secured a job/got married/had kids, etc. and moved
on. One can assume a lot. All I know, is I was thanked by several of them
for organizing the bounties & the payment and that it helped them in that
moment in time.
> > > It may be hard to believe, but the effort for some software development
> > > tasks is very hard to estimate. If the risk is all on the developer's
> side
> > > and, if the money is pitiful for western standards, that is a very low
> > > motivation for accepting such a job.
> > >
> >
> > I was just referring to the fact that money goes a lot further in
> countries
> > like India, where there are lots of quality developers/programmers. To
> them
> > ~$16USD/h may be more attractive than to you.
>
> It's not just about the way you can spend the money locally. The job is
> unsecure and may stop anytime without a warning ("sorry, we've run out
> of money"). It may be difficult to sell on your resume ("so I worked for
> this open source project no one knows about, at unusually low rates for
> US standards..."). This is a risk not everyone is willing to take.
>
> On the other side, there is a risk in hiring a previously unknown
> developer with such a contract, even more so if there isn't more
> collaboration with the Haiku project. What if the developer gets things
> working, but the code is not clean enough or good design enough for our
> coding standards, and we (as the Haiku Project) decide to not merge it?
> How would user react to that? What if the developer doesn't deliver? Can
> we decide to not pay him at all despite the time spent on the project?
> How would that affect our image? Depending on the country where this is
> happening and the local laws, can we get into legal trouble because of
> it?
>
> See what happened with mmlr contract a few years ago. The contract was
> cancelled because of health problems, a short time after it started.
> This had rather bad repercussions on what the community thinks of Haiku,
> Inc. Should we take even more risks at playing this with unknown
> developers? Our experience with students disappearing out of the Google
> Summer of Code shows there is a rather high number of dishonest people.
> Or to word it differently, you can't hire an unknown guy on the
> internets who live on the other side of the world, provide him with some
> money and support via our IRC channels or mailing lists, and expect
> great progress for Haiku to come out if it.
>
Yes. that is part of the problem with Haiku's 'open-ended' contracts. Not
with bounties. They are a calculated risk, and that's obvious. So what?
Apparently there are enough people willing to take an all or nothing risk
when they can see the reward. They know the consequences before taking it
on, they are big boys. They are two different models and each had their
success.
Ingo's argument is a poor one. Of course the bounties were a motivating
factor. If you look, for example, at when certain bounties started and the
flurry of commits thereafter, then of course they motivate. Look how many
commits Marcus Overhagen has made in the last years. In three weeks he
completed the SATA bounty; so obviously they motivate. The same goes for
Haiku's contracts. Money is the motivating factor - if Adrien weren't
funded with his work on the webkit, he obviously wouldn't/couldn't commit
as much as he now does.
Listen, I didn't want this to start another flame war. I was just
suggesting what I thought felt might help or work.
thx
>
> --
> Adrien.
>
>
--
Karl vom Dorff
BScH Biology (German Minor)
numbdesign.com
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