[haiku-development] Re: Package Management - devel or not to devel?
- From: miqlas <miqlas@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: haiku-development@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Tue, 3 Sep 2013 19:38:01 +0200
Hi Guys!
And what if we make a little bit better?
For example we can make a switch in HaikuDepot (Or in Settings -» Development)
like in Cydia, where the user can select between Basic User role and Developer
User role.
If Basic role selected, then HaikuDepot lists only the non-devel packages, but
if Developer role selected, the system install automagically and always the dev
packages for everything, without any question.
It is ok for you, Guys?
Bye!
Z.
2013.09.03. dátummal, 18:26 időpontban Isak Andersson <contact@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
írta:
> On 9/3/13, Ingo Weinhold <ingo_weinhold@xxxxxx> wrote:
>> On 09/03/2013 04:59 PM, Isak Andersson wrote:
>>> I agree with not having -devel packages. I haven't ever had a problem
>>> with headers taking up too much space or whatever. In Archlinux you
>>> simply install a package and you get the dev stuff too (if it exists).
>>> Makes things very easy to use and less frustrating.
>>>
>>> Still though, I can see some nice things about having a separate
>>> -devel package, But I don't think the positives outweigh the positives
>>> of keeping just one package.
>>
>> Maybe someone can give some details on the negative use case that makes
>> devel packages an "endless pain" and causes "untold hours of
>> frustration". I can't relate at all. All I have to do on Linux
>> (openSUSE) is a "zypper install foo-devel" to get foo's devel package
>> (and foo itself, if it hadn't been installed before). I don't recall
>> ever having experienced any pain or frustration doing that.
>>
>> CU, Ingo
>>
>> PS: Please don't top-post.
>>
>>
>>
>
> Sorry about the top posting. I am not used to GMail and I am not 100%
> sure how to get it to stop. Hopefully I am doing it right now.
>
> Anyhow. First I think it is wrong to assume that the user is informed
> enough to even realise what a devel package _is_. One option would be
> that they install it just to be safe. What also could happen is that
> the user could misinterpret the package as an in-development package
> to which they might react either:
>
> "Oh cool! There is a newer version, well that I want to try!"
> "What? Why are they putting unfinished software in here?"
> etc.
>
> The argument I am trying to convey is that it adds one more thing to
> understand and thus raising the barrier of entry to understand how to
> use the package management. I sure remember when I was a linux newbie
> and saw a bunch of -dev packages in ubuntu and wasn't sure if I needed
> it or not or what they were for (before I started developing). And
> also for a user who wants to start developing but doesn't know
> anything about headers or anything yet it can definitely be confusing
> to get why you need a -devel package, but in that case it is less of a
> problem. Where it does impose a problem though is when a slightly more
> advanced than casual user wants to attempt to compile software that
> *might* be able to run on Haiku because they realise that all the
> dependencies exist in the repository. They go like "oh! Haiku has glfw
> and libao, maybe I can just follow the building instructions and get
> this game working" - that kind of user would possibly not know that it
> needs -devel packages just from following the building instructions
> saying something like "just cd into the directory and run ./configure
> && make && make install :P".
>
> So no for us more advanced users we know how to use -devel packages.
> But even then it is nice to not have to deal with them in my opinion.
>
> Cheers!
> Isak Andersson
> contact@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>
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