[haiku-development] Re: Haiku page_writer maybe not working (was: Re: Haiku self-hosting.)

  • From: "Jorge G. Mare" <koki@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: haiku-development@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: Tue, 01 Apr 2008 22:23:12 -0700


We hear you. As Stippi so well explained, this is a known issue, the
devs are aware of it and will be taken care at some point in time. No
need to write a bible about it.

Comparing Haiku *at this stage* with BeOS does not make sense, as BeOS
was of release quality and Haiku is still pre-alpha and not yet
bulletproof (sic) as you seem (or want) to think it is.

So get over it, chill, and give the devs time to do their work.



On Tue, 2008-04-01 at 22:04 -0700, Luposian wrote:
> On Apr 1, 2008, at 6:21 PM, Urias McCullough wrote:
> > Ok, I'll entertain this discussion a little further - especially since
> > I was unfair to reply without reading your entire message (sorry,
> > knee-jerk reaction when I see you complaining about this without
> > actually doing anything about it).
> If I could program... oh, if only I could program...
> > To be fair to you - I will personally try your scenario tonight on my
> > Haiku test machine. I might even go so far as to file a Trac ticket on
> > your behalf if I see the same behavior and you don't get around to it
> > first.
> Thank you.
> > But keep in mind that a KDL is not a "normal scenario" that a user
> > should ever encounter. I wouldn't be surprised if the Haiku scheduler
> > for some reason delays the page_writer from writing the cache back to
> > disk - and maybe this explains the delay.
> Hitting F12 and typing "reboot" is a worst case scenario.  It's a 
> scenario of "what if the system 'cuts out on you' unexpectedly?".  And 
> that can happen at ANY time.  But my argument is that, after copying a 
> file and even waiting 15-30 minutes... I hit F12 and type "reboot"... 
> and the file still disappears!  How long does Haiku expect me to wait 
> for it to writeback the contents of a file to the disk?  Everything I 
> can see, indicates the file is there.  It's in the new location.  The 
> Disk Info says disk space is taken up (the amount of the file that was 
> copied).  The drive light was going the entire time the file copy was 
> taking place... yet the file disappears when I "reboot" unexpectedly... 
> even up to 30 minutes after it's done copying the file.
> This doesn't happen in BeOS, even 20-30 seconds after a file copy, when 
> I manually press the reset button (it's the same effect as 
> F12+"reboot"... an "unexpected" reboot).  What is BeOS doing that Haiku 
> isn't?
> If it's just a matter of waiting til this matter is resolved, I can 
> wait (hopefully, not too much longer; Haiku is self-hosting now.  More 
> people will undoubtedly be using it to JAM new versions of Haiku on 
> itself and *someone* is bound to have all the latest files they just 
> downloaded suddenly vanish because their system "blipped" for one 
> reason or another)  But file copying is such a fundamental, basic 
> element of an OS.  I would have expected this to have been done years 
> ago!
> > Nobody should expect much from an Pre-alpha OS. The reality is -
> > that's what you're using.
> The more Haiku can do, the more that is expected of it.  File writing 
> to the hard drive is a fundamental, basic aspect of any OS.  Yet, here 
> we are at the stage where Haiku is *self-hosting* and you can't trust 
> your files to it's care, because a hiccup in the system might make 
> everything go away!  Even 30 minutes later, after you thought all the 
> files were saved, copied, written, whatever!
> How can this be considered an acceptable detail?  *Because* it's 
> pre-Alpha?  Yes, Haiku is pre-Alpha... but it's so mature, in it's 
> pre-Alpha status... it feels like I'm using Haiku beta!  That's how 
> good it's been done!  But, an OS at this stage of apparent maturity 
> should be able to guarantee that a file that you copied is actually 
> there, shouldn't it?  Even if I had to wait a full minute after the 
> fact, that would be ok, to me.  At least I'd know, as long as my system 
> didn't burp before that minute was up (something I think is a safe bet, 
> with my systems and our power grid), my files would be secure and still 
> there when Haiku came back up.
> > If you're so fanatical about this - you really should keep up on the
> > news. Nobody likes an uninformed PITA showing up every few months only
> > to complain about the state of a project.
> Notice how it's only in one area, however?  It was about file copying 
> causing a KDL before.  Now that it's fixed, notice I haven't said a 
> word?  In fact, I am so overjoyed that Haiku is now bulletproof in that 
> department, I decided to really push the system and throw it an 
> unexpected curve.  A sudden reboot!  It was only because the file(s) I 
> copied WEREN'T there when Haiku came back up, that I began to 
> complain... once again.
> The whole 32-bit video thing also has me pretty upset also, but the 
> whole "two steps forward and one step back" has become so routine, over 
> the years of Haiku's development, I'm just going to wait it out, rather 
> than cause a ruckus.  Besides, there's a work around for that... going 
> to 16-bit color mode.  Now, if Haiku couldn't be viewed in ANYTHING but 
> 640x480, in 8-bit color... THEN I'd cause a stink! :-D
> I am, however, curious, how the video issue happened, because 32-bit 
> video worked perfectly before.  Who changed what and stepped on whose 
> toes (what code got broken) for that glitch to occur?
> > Sorry, if this is turning out to be nothing more than a rant of my 
> > own...
> Oh, that's ok... as long as Haiku reaches R1 status by tomorrow, 
> everything is cool!  :-D
> Hope you had a fun April Fools day.  Hey, even with my ranting and 
> complaining and screaming like a rabid banshee... at least Haiku is now 
> self-hosting!  So bring on the Martinelli's Apple Cider and let's 
> PAR-TAY!!!! :-)
> And always remember... as loud as I complain, about one or two issues, 
> is as loud as my support and pride and enthusiasm that Haiku is the OS 
> I want to be using, exclusively, in the future.  More than BeOS.  More 
> than Windows.  More than Ubuntu.  More than MacOS X!
> And the sooner... the better!  So, y'all... **KEEP UP THE GOOD 
> WORK!!!**  :-)
> Latre!
> Luposian

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