Yes I agree, Jorge waste our time. Even though I tried to ignore his mails it cost me several hours to filter them out. I think many developer spend more time on reading his mails than me. The ridiculous attempt to remove his drupal theme is another example where he harms the project, in the end he contribute nothing but produce a lot more work.
Clemensps. On the German wikipedia there is a anti pattern entry. I think this case is a kind of empire building, isn't it? Sorry can't find a English equivalent of this side.
Am 14.05.2010, 06:33 Uhr, schrieb Ingo Weinhold <ingo_weinhold@xxxxxx>:
Greetings, first of all, this not a voting thread -- I will start one in a few days(with "[VOTE]" in the subject and a concise and neutral message text). This thread is for presenting and discussing arguments for/against banning JorgeG. Mare (aka koki) from the project. The primary audience are the contributors with voting privilege.What prompts me to write this mail is for one thing the developments in the"Attribution for Haiku website design and theme" thread on the general mailing list [1], but actually more importantly that I finally took the time to watch the "How Open Source Projects Survive Poisonous People (AndYou Can Too)" Google Tech Talk [2]. People have linked to it several times already (unsurprisingly in "Jorge discussion" threads) and I can recommendit to anyone who hasn't seen it yet. It's not that the talk reveals some surprising new ideas, but rather thatit puts things in a practical perspective. The main point is that a projecthas a goal and it should be able to recognize and deal with people who (intentionally or unintentionally) hinder the progress towards that goal.That also includes long term contributors. The people giving the talk evenmention a project that kicked out the project founder when at some point his ideas for the project's direction where not compatible with those of the other contributors.As most of you already know, Jorge left and rejoined the project more thanonce. During each phase of his participation long-winded, emotionally draining discussions ensued, usually causing him to leave eventually. Inthe past the argument has been brought up that something must be wrong with the project, when such an important contributor as Jorge is driven away. Isay that in fact the opposite is true. It is a sign of a healthy project when people not compatible with the other contributors are repelled.Unfortunately this time things are escalating again and Jorge doesn't showany inclination to leave the project on his own volition. That's why Isuggest to permanently ban him from all official communication channels ofthe project (mailing lists, IRC, website, trac). In hindsight, it would have saved a lot of time and drama had we done that years ago. Well, let me get to the heart of the matter. Why is Jorge "poisonous" to the project? His contributions in the marcom, website, artwork, and translation departments are definitely valued (though he openly callscertain people (including myself) who state that liars -- but more below),so the reasons better be good. They are: 1. Jorge wastes people's time As said in the tech talk one means to identify a poisonous person is mailing list statistics: If you look at your mailing list and see long-winded threads with almost half of the mails written by one single person you have a good indicator.A prime example of such a thread is "Tentative approval for paying for thefliers" [3]. Total number of mails: 65, Jorge: 26 (40%). More than thefollowing five (Scott, Urias, Axel, Niels, myself -- each 4 or 5) together.The still ongoing (or hopefully not) "Attribution for Haiku website designand theme" thread [1] contains 58 mails so far, with 19 of them by Jorge (33%). Two people have contributed 4 mails each, everyone else even less. More: * "Haiku User Groups" [4]: 18/54 (33%)* "please keep non-GSoC comments out of these threads; was [GSsC] usermodeHaiku or file system development" [5]: 16/47 (34%) All of these are threads from the last six months. There've been plenty more over the years. While generally active participation in communication is nothing bad,producing a third or more of the mail traffic, with most of the rest being replies to those mails by others clearly points to a problem. Besides thata closer look at the threads in question shows that those turn dysfunctional (concerning actual discussion progress) after a few mails.Just deleting the 200+ individual mails of the above example threads takesseveral minutes (assuming 1 mail/s), which for, say, 1000 subscribersresults in a total of more than a week of full-time work lost. This is not counting the time people lose actually reading the mails. And this is also not counting the time of the contributors who get engaged in those threads.This massive amount of wasted time alone rectifies banning Jorge. 2. Jorge is unable or unwilling to communicate in a respectful manner Particularly when other people are in disagreement with him Jorge uses a manipulative discussion style, employing several rhetorical techniques toevade or twist arguments, or divert the discussion entirely. This has been pointed out to him several times [6, 7]. Which he utterly ignored, carryingon as usual. Such a behavior shows utter disrespect for people trying to actually discuss with him and is simply unacceptable. This alone rectifies banning Jorge. 3. Jorge is unable or unwilling to accept other opinions It is only natural that in a diverse group of people such as the Haiku community there are a good deal of conflicting opinions regarding various related topics. Those conflicts are resolved by way of discussion on ourmailing lists. Usually leading to one party being convinced by the other'sarguments or at least accepting that the majority shares the opposing opinion. Jorge has failed repeatedly at that. By employing manipulative discussion techniques (2.) and reiterating his point ad infinitum he drags on discussions unnecessarily (1.) without any effect other than wasting people's time and causing immense emotional drain.Over time he has constructed an imaginary group -- apparently consisting ofpeople disagreeing with him on certain topics or just criticizing his discussion style -- that he continuously denounces as liars and "Jorge haters". Originally just referred to as "people like <name>" (replace <name> with the name of a supposed group member), later as "clique" or"in-group", that group has recently reached "cosa nostra" status [8] and isa full-grown conspiracy against Jorge [9, 10].I'm not the only one suspecting a mental disorder. Considering a rationallyfounded agenda seems even scarier, though. At any rate, Jorge has repeatedly demonstrated that he has troubleinteracting with people who have opinions conflicting with his. Again, thatalone rectifies banning him. CU, Ingo [1] //www.freelists.org/post/haiku/Attribution-for-Haiku-website-design-and-theme [2] http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4216011961522818645# [3] //www.freelists.org/post/haiku/Tentative-approval-for-paying-for-the-fliers [4] //www.freelists.org/post/haiku/Haiku-User-Groups [5] //www.freelists.org/post/haiku/please-keep-nonGSoC-comments-out-of-these-threads-was-GSsC-usermode-Haiku-or-file-system-development [6] //www.freelists.org/post/haiku/Propose-for-banning-was-Reducing-paper-waste-at-conferences,16 [7] //www.freelists.org/post/haiku/Tentative-approval-for-paying-for-the-fliers,61 [8] http://www.haikuware.com/20100509498/my-haiku-library-and-application-rant#comment-5158 [9] //www.freelists.org/post/haiku/Attribution-for-Haiku-website-design-and-theme,21 [10] //www.freelists.org/post/haiku/Attribution-for-Haiku-website-design-and-theme,22