[haiku-development] Re: Banning Jorge G. Mare

  • From: Stephan Assmus <superstippi@xxxxxx>
  • To: haiku-development@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: Fri, 14 May 2010 16:14:09 +0200

On 2010-05-14 at 13:06:18 [+0200], Jonas Sundström <jonas@xxxxxxxxxxx> 
> Stephan Assmus Stephan Assmus <superstippi@xxxxxx> wrote:
>  ...
> > Jonas, I am not sure you see the full extend of what Ingo
> > means by "immense emotional drain". I know exactly what he
> > means by this.
> True, I have AFAIK never been a target for Jorge's critique.
>  ...
> > Clearly Jorge will not accept that there is no clique, and that
> > people are not abusing their "power" and that people don't have
> > to kiss asses and that anyone can freely criticize the project.
> > Do you personally think that these things are true, or that they
> > have at least some sort of basis which needs to be fixed?
> I believe there is a loose group of longtime contributors* who are
> slightly closer, to the runnings of the project, to the design
> decisions of Haiku and perhaps also to each other.

Indeed I know some people much better than some other, for example I went 
to school with Ingo. Axel helped my girlfriend and me move, and we 
regularily spend skiing vacations together and the last few "inofficial 
summer gatherings" have been largely composed of the same people.

So I don't see the slightest problem in saying some of Haiku's core 
contributors are actually close friends. Even if there was no common 
activity outside Haiku, this project goes on for years. If the people stick 
around, it's only natural that they become friends. At the same time, there 
are many examples where these close friends disagree on something and have 
a discussion to find a compromise.

It would indeed be a problem if there was a closed group which alienates 
"outsiders" and makes them feel unwelcome. I think there are many many 
examples where even some random person popped up out of nowhere with an 
idea or contribution and there was no problem for them joining in. There 
have been individual cases, like with Karl's bounty idea back in the days, 
that have met resistance from many core contributors. They have a right to 
have an opinion and it cannot be held against them if many of them happen 
to share the same opinion. There are also cases where individual people 
have made mistakes, and have dropped the ball on something. Sometimes these 
people have been in charge of something important and you could say the 
"project" made a mistake, although it's of course always sort of a stretch 
with a volunteer driven effort to blame individual people when something 
doesn't get taken care of. However, sometimes people accept responsibility 
for certain tasks, and it's of course unfortunate when stuff takes too long 
or certain things get neglected. When something bad happened and it got 
pointed out, there has always been an effort to at least discuss things and 
most often it also resulted in some action taken to improve things. There 
are certainly things that have evolved only slowly. The cause of the 
problems were always, IMHO, lack of time and motivation to work on 
something particular, or plainly lack of people. Whenever someone stepped 
up and tried to actually accomplish anything, others have been quick in 
providing them with the necessary access. One example is Matt, who wanted 
to become active in taking care of Haiku Inc stuff, he wasn't part of any 
closed group before being able to join in. Quite on the contrary and he was 
able to stir things up and get some stuff finally taken care of with the 

This is my perception of Haiku's reality, and this is in stark contrast to 
how Jorge perceives both the project, and several indivuals, which happen 
to be among the most active contributors.

> I don't worry much about the project. I don't see anyone abusing
> his power, or feel that anyone has unwarranted authority, or that
> I have to tippy-toe around hot subjects. Generally speaking I think
> we're a healthy meritocracy. Developer-driven, which seemed to be
> a problem for Jorge when he wanted some freedom to work in non-dev
> areas.

I fully agree. I just don't see how Jorge will agree with this. And even if 
somehow we manage to smooth things out this time, it will all be forgotten 
later and we will be back where we started. But I think it's beyond repair 
this time. Some people have simply no energy left to stay polite. Certainly 
Jorge didn't have any energy left for this when he wrote that initial 
comment on Haikuware.

Best regards,

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