(Not quoting any of the previous emails on purpose) Lines of code are by no means the measure of someone's contribution to a project, nor number of commits. There's foreign code being imported; there's fundamental code that's small and once written, rarely touched again; there's tons of code that's rewritten over and over due to following the buzzword du jour (think Linux). There's people who never wrote a single line of code and yet are *the* driving force behind a project (think Steve Jobs). There are people who wrote embarassingly crappy code and yet are *the* driving force behind a project (think younger Bill Gates). There are people who are eminently silent as real life individuals, but are geniuses and the very cornerstone of a project (think young Steve Wozniak). There are those who, in later years become eccentric and dare I say sour about a perceived lack of recognition (again, think Woz). I myself would love to have my name plastered all over the AboutSystem credits, and I was actually *really* surprised to see it mentioned there, despite recognising that I have not materialised a *single* contribution to Haiku other than suggesting a butt-ugly macro a few days ago. And boy, am I afraid of voicing my opinions here; and it's not just about my low self-esteem and seeing that most of the things I'm most excited about and invest most of my time into turn out being colossal flops, which further contributes to my fear of being criticised, yadda yadda. I guess this is public knowledge already, as I've written about these things in the past, on emails to [openbeos] and blog posts. See, I was *paid* to code a scheduler that for all practical purposes is viewed as vapourware and I'd be lucky if more than 5% of the community considers me something better than a lazy-ass charlatan. But in my point of view it's my very bones and marrow turned into code, it's the best algorithms I've ever written, and I'm greatly ashamed by not having released it yet, my real life be damned. But I'm pressing on, on the pace I'm able to keep. Because it was just too good a ride to feel part of this project. We have no other driving force than passion and the belief that somehow what we're doing is going to make the virtual world a little more pallatable. We have no companies to back our development, and we're not short on real life issues, be they unemployement, getting married, moving to another country, burning out, the fear of having wasted our own youth writing machine code instead of love letters, illness, depression, loved ones passing away, equipment being stolen, toes being stepped on, RSI, car crashes -- each and every of those have actually happened to members of this project. Yes, there's the issue of pride, on both camps. It feels good to be part of an open source project. It feels liberating and empowering to use open source software. As annoyed as everyone gets when someone drops out of the blue and expresses how he or she thinks something is supposed to be done, often in a do-or-be-doomed tone, this can only mean that what is being done here IS touching people. It IS being noticed. People outside the most obscure of cliques DO care and have high hopes for what can be accomplished here. Frankly I didn't expect to see another wave of friction and heated discussions this soon, but this can only mean that Haiku has grown way beyond what we perceive as being its circle of influence. Sometimes it feels, to me, that it's been only a few days since we managed to boot into app_server; but Holy Deity, we're self-hosting already, we do Firefox, we're starting to seriously consider letting other projects deprecate BeOS support and embrace Haiku. I'm going to chalk this discussion up to growing pains, and urge everyone to *by no means* let go of the thrill, the excitement, the wonder, the driving passion, but at the same time realise that Haiku is not anyone's pet project anymore -- as a matter of fact it's a 501(c)(3) organization. It has outgrown the grip of *everyone* in here as individuals BY FAR. And before we have a third wave of friction and heated discussions and egos being hurt and public spats and whatnot, it REALLY is about time to formalise the socio-political structure of this project, instead of taking decidions ad hoc. They way things currently stand makes people feel entitled to impose their views, not have enough of a voice to actually be heard and perhaps waste excellent ideas on deaf ears, or both! I guess this is what Koki is trying to say all along. Cheer up! Haiku's turned 7! A.