[haiku-commits] Re: haiku: hrev46796 - in src: kits/interface servers/app/stackandtile apps/webpositive apps/mail
- From: John Scipione <jscipione@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: "haiku-commits@xxxxxxxxxxxxx" <haiku-commits@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2014 11:48:47 -0500
On Sat, Feb 1, 2014 at 7:08 AM, Ingo Weinhold <ingo_weinhold@xxxxxx> wrote:
> Cmd-Up/Down, too, please? There really isn't any point in duplicating the
> Cmd-Home/End functionality. However, hitting the combo accidentally is
> pretty annoying.
I've removed the Cmd+Up/Down shortcuts in hrev46805. I'm sorry that
you found them to be annoying, I found them to be extremely helpful.
<rant>
It takes a bit of muscle retraining I admit to get used to it, but I
think if you do, you really start to appreciate the convenience that
using cmd+arrows to quickly navigate around text views.
For single line text views, which are a common case, you can use
Cmd+left or Cmd+up to get back to the start and Cmd+right or Cmd+down
to get to the end. The duplication purposeful, it allows you to use a
different combo depending on how you are thinking about what you're
currently editing, more on that below. Sure, home and end work too,
but, they just aren't as convenient to press as they're tucked away in
a difficult to locate position.
Multi-line text views is where this really shines. Cmd+Up and Cmd+Down
allow you to go to the beginning and end of the document really
easily. This is such a common operation because you often want to
select from your current position to one of the extremes so you can
copy and paste a bunch of text at a time, or, you want to go to the
end of the document so you can add some more details, or you want to
go to the beginning of the document to add some more details. Again,
the home and end keys work but are just not as convenient.
It's fairly useful in source code editors too, I use this feature all
the time in Eddie. Again, it's a muscle memory thing, so, I understand
it's hard to appreciate this at first.
The cmd+left and cmd+right shortcuts are (were) convenient for working
with paragraphs of text, which is also very common. I'm talking about
in the context of authoring text, not code, if you write a lot of
prose you work with paragraphs a lot, because, well, paragraphs
contain a complete idea, or at least should, and you tend to select,
move, copy, cut, and rework complete ideas quite frequently while you
write.
The option shortcuts are for moving around inside of paragraphs
quickly, obviously you already know about how convenient that is.
option+up and option+down is a fair alternative for going to the
beginning and end of the paragraph, so I'm pretty happy about that
actually. If only S&T didn't gobble them up -- at some point I hope we
come up with a better solution for S&T shortcuts because they
negatively affects my ability to work with text, not just text views
but in Eddie too which I spend a lot of time in.
</rant>
TL;DR Navigating and selecting text with Cmd/Option+arrows has some
subtle benefits.
On Sat, Feb 1, 2014 at 8:48 AM, Axel Dörfler <axeld@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> On 02/01/2014 01:14 AM, John Scipione wrote:
>> Obviously you don't share my vision. I respect your opinion even if I
>> disagree with it.
>
> You never shared your vision AFAICT. However, what we really need are
> configurable shortcuts, so that everyone can get what he wants (at the
> minimum, a working solution for every keymap).
Well, I thought I had shared it, I know I've brought the idea up
before anyway...
While configurable shortcuts would be nice, and I agree we do need
them, that doesn't really pertain to the most salient problem which is
that we still need to come up with reasonable defaults first.
The defaults here are really really important because they apply to
many applications throughout the system, this is really part and
partial of what makes Haiku Haiku. Unfortunately Be really dropped the
ball here design-wise so we're left picking up the pieces. I had a
vision, others have their visions, we're hopefully refining our
visions to come up with something great.
>> Keyboard navigation in websites does not suck, it works great. Just
>> because you don't use a feature doesn't mean it is unimportant.
>
> Huh? You obviously have a different idea of greatness, then. I prefer to use
> the keyboard whenever possible, and I rarely touch the mouse when I work.
> However, navigating web sites with the keyboard is just painful. You either
> never use it, or you like pressing tab 20 times to get to the link you want
> to. I for sure don't.
You're conflating two different ideas. The first is using the keyboard
shortcuts to navigate back and forwards, this is the part that works
great, or at least decently. Making backspace go back a page would be
a useful addition, but that definitely would require context sensitive
text controls...
The second is navigating inside of the page using tab and text view
controls. This doesn't work well in all cases, but, is helpful in
forms where it does work well, or it would work well at least if Web+
supported text inputs properly.
>> What if we made the shortcuts to go back and forwards a page in Web+
>> Control+Left and Control+Right instead of Command+Left and
>> Command+Right?
>
>> This is similar to another shortcut in Haiku, Ctrl+Tab, which follows
>> the ctrl/alt swapped convention of Windows convention as well.
>
> I wouldn't mind that.
Okay, this might be best for all users of Haiku, despite the fact that
it isn't my personal preference.
>> Now, I'm not sure if it's possible to make a shortcut that uses
>> control instead of command... but, if it is possible, I think that may
>> be the best compromise we can make.
>
> Huh? BView::KeyDown().
Well, we could implement something in KeyDown() but that wouldn't put
the shortcut in the menu. The shortcut must be in the menu to make it
discoverable, but I don't know how to do that with control.
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