[openbeos-cdt] Re: cdt leadership and my personal status.

  • From: <debro@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: <openbeos-cdt@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2002 12:33:20 -0300

Congratulations Stuart. I'm sure you'll be a great leader (well.. my vote
was for you in the times before time).

Guy, i'm proud of how you took this. Keep up the good work.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Boris Kuncer" <borisko@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <openbeos-cdt@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Tuesday, April 02, 2002 9:16 PM
Subject: [openbeos-cdt] Re: cdt leadership and my personal status.

> Stuart,
> I have question for icon team organization.
> First I would like to see who is working on icons. (who want to work on
> icons).
> Also it's good to know who have experience in making icons.
> Just an information for better communication.
> I'm trying to post one message on forum with an idea how can people help
> me on my work on icons.
> Is forum dead?
> -boris
> >Jonas,
> >
> >I agree in part with what you have said.  I take issue with
> >this comment:
> >
> >"It is the general concensus (from what the members have
> >posted) that everyone seems to feel the need for these things,
> >but their suggestions for the way in which they are to be
> >implemented are.... off basis. There are members that seem to
> >think we should be 'run and managed' like a business, most
> >likely due to their personal experience in their professions.
> >That is to say that they think, from what they have openly
> >said, that we should be told what to do and how to do it, and
> >that the CDT needs this to have 'direction'."
> >
> >as I have been one of the vocal proponents of this style of
> >managing the group.  Do not think of it as telling people what
> >to do, think of it as a challenge to your creativity.  For
> >instance, if you are designing a web site and your client says
> >you can't do any DHTML, the colors have to be web-safe (216
> >color web palette) and the site will be data driven so leave
> >areas where text can flow, do you chime in and say "no way,
> >you can't tell me what to do, I'm the designer" or do you say
> >"ok, let me see what I can come up with" and go back to your
> >workspace and mull the proposal over thinking within the
> >boundaries the client has created?
> >
> >If you are a professional designer you have done the latter.
> >Why? Design is not directly art.  It is an artistic endeavor
> >yet the end result must communicate an idea.  Design has
> >boundaries and limits we must work within. Technically
> >speaking, so does art; you're probably not going to use
> >watercolor on a piece of canvas or carve or build/weld/create
> >an outside sculpture using a material not suitable to
> >withstand the elements.  Anyway, it's these boundaries which
> >designers must view as a challenge, not a hindrance.  When a
> >client asks you to design an annual report you better have an
> >EXCELLENT reason for using an 11x17 inch tabloid sized paper
> >instead of working within the typical, standard 8.5x11 inch
> >letter sized page.  If they have a limited budget you need to
> >cut back on all those spot colors, spot varnishes and metallic
> >finishes.  Oh, and lose the custom die-cut as well.  If the
> >company is named "Eagle Air Freight" you best not use a hawk
> >just because you like them better.  If their colors are red,
> >white and blue, don't design their annual report with garish
> >neon-colors unless they specifically ask for them or you can
> >argue their use in some way enhances the companies image.
> >
> >This group is working on a design project, not an art project.
> >
> >That being said, I have been asked by Michael to work as the
> >project lead for the Creative Design Team.  I know in the past
> >that I might have rubbed people the wrong way.  My goal was to
> >get the group motivated to organize and begin thinking of this
> >project as a set of goals and steps which need to be attained,
> >not some loose kit group of people who like to play around
> >with image editors.  As the leader I am going to have to work
> >to be less abrasive.  At the same time, I want everyone to
> >realize that this is a global group.  We don't know one
> >another personally and we don't understand each others
> >cultures.  Keep this in mind when posting to the group AND
> >more importantly when responding to a message.
> >
> >I have to get some things together and begin drafting a
> >timeline for projects and when things should be done.  In the
> >meantime I'm going to outline a couple things here and toss
> >out the first project.  The basic course should be:
> >
> >1) name for "OBOS"
> >2) define the OS identity - logo (this includes mascots, "bugs", and/or
> >typography) and color schemes.
> >3) UI design
> >4) icon, wallpaper and sound design
> >
> >Numbers 3 and 4 can work simultaneously because there might be
> >an icon set or wallpaper design which inspires the UI team or
> >the UI could inspire a whole set of icons, sounds and
> >wallpaper.  As this part is still a few months away there
> >won't be any major focus here.  Don't let this stop you from
> >being creative, it's just that the group discussion won't take
> >place in earnest until then.  However, the icon teams do need
> >to begin working on icons which match the current BeOS R5 look
> >and feel.  My recommendations are to keep the perspective look
> >and try to use the BeOS color palette (I believe you can
> >download it from BeBits and use it in Photoshop or any other
> >image editor that can read .aco files).
> >
> >Now, some of you are probably wondering about number 1.  You
> >heard me correctly, we need to consider a name change.
> >According to Michael Phipps, OBOS or OpenBeOS are questionable
> >as to their use.  Apparently BeUnited has spent all their
> >brownie points with Palm by trying to license the BeOS source
> >code that even a question to Palm concerning the legalities of
> >using BeOS in the OS name would be out of the question.  Palm
> >simply does not want to think about their future use of the
> >BeOS IP, including the name, at this point as they have much
> >larger problems to worry about.  So, it is left to us to think
> >of some names.  I would like to set some times (I'll have a
> >few just to make sure everyone gets a chance to be involved)
> >to get the group together on IRC to have a real-time
> >discussion of this part of the project. I would like to have
> >some names to pass along to Michael and some of the other
> >decision makers for OBOS in a couple weeks, let's say by April
> >14th. This way I can send them along with my weekly status
> >report on the 15th. For now, I'm going to post a topic on the
> >forum to open the floor to name suggestions.
> >
> >That's it for now.  Think of names and if you're in the icon
> >team, start working on R5 icons.  The initial set should have
> >tracker, computer, hard drive, folder, home, trash can,
> >network, and various document type (jpg, gif, html, txt,
> >midi/audio) icons.  If you want to create common app icons for
> >the preference apps or some of the regular apps which ship
> >with BeOS R5, great but I'll have to check to see which of
> >these apps will be shipped with OBOS R1 so you might wind up
> >designing an icon which is not used at all.
> >
> >
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: openbeos-cdt-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >[mailto:openbeos-cdt-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of DigitalSin
> >Sent: Tuesday, April 02, 2002 12:45 PM
> >To: openbeos-cdt@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >Subject: [openbeos-cdt] Re: cdt leadership and my personal status.
> >
> >
> >
> >Hello Guy,
> >
> >    I am sad to see this but am glad that you will be sticking
> >around. Also, I can understand you not wanting to mess with
> >organization, but I see that as part of being a 'leader' for
> >the CDT ; so I can understand Michael's decision.
> >
> >    Having said that, I must also say that I agreed with how
> >you tried to bring the members together - to be more
> >productive and to work together without stepping on each
> >other's toes. You were always courteous and constructive in
> >your criticism - something I think all the members should try
> >more to emulate.
> >
> >    In that way, I do have some concerns as to the future of
> >the CDT, and to it's leadership, that I would like to address.
> >If you would kindly forward this to Michael it would be much
> >appreciated.
> >
> >    Firstly, my main concern being the structure of the team,
> >and the views of some of the members as to how to move forward
> >in a timely fashion. While I agree with the call for a
> >'professional' appearance and internal organization, and that
> >the team needs direction, it is the means to that end that concerns me.
> >
> >    It is the general concensus (from what the members have
> >posted) that everyone seems to feel the need for these things,
> >but their suggestions for the way in which they are to be
> >implemented are.... off basis. There are members that seem to
> >think we should be 'run and managed' like a business, most
> >likely due to their personal experience in their professions.
> >That is to say that they think, from what they have openly
> >said, that we should be told what to do and how to do it, and
> >that the CDT needs this to have 'direction'.
> >
> >    I was under the impression that this was a 'Creative
> >Development Team'. There are two basic ways to 'manage' a
> >group such as this. One way is to have a leader who in the end
> >has final say in making the decisions. The other way is to
> >have the group decide, based on a voting system where the
> >highest number of votes passes a motion. Either way though,
> >there is the method of creation - born of the very words that
> >our team is entitled with - creative development.
> >
> >    The best way is to have a mixing of the two, NOT just one
> >or the other. A team leader is one who will take charge but
> >not be overpowering, and who can see both sides unbiased. What
> >has been proposed by others is contrary to these very notions.
> >
> >    Some have said that what we are striving for must be
> >defined first, before any creative work can be done. What they
> >are losing sight of is that this in itself is a creative act.
> >What we need now is for a leader to step in and say:
> >
> >---------------------------------------------------------------
> >-------------
> >-
> >"Ok everyone, as a group brainstorm proposals for
> >what you think OpenBeos should look like, feel like, be
> >like... as a WHOLE - don't be too specific, think general. The
> >end for submissions is ONE WEEK from now. Remember to work
> >together, and come up with atleast five general descriptions.
> >We will then vote individually: each member can cast ONE vote
> >for any submission of their choice. The top three are then
> >voted upon in a final round. The winner will be the proposal
> >with the most points, and the ranking system is as follows:
> >
> >Team Member: 1 point
> >Team Leaders: 2 points (there are fewer of us and we put up
> >with more :P) Project Leader: Breaking decision/ultimate choice
> >
> >ALL OBOS members take part in final vote, and there is an
> >anonymous person in charge of point tallying (chosen by
> >project leader).
> >
> >The chosen 'look/appearance/feel' of OpenBeos will then
> >influence all aspects of the cdt, and the voting can have a
> >positive affect (publicity). It will also give everyone a say
> >in the final outcome (including not only the cdt but
> >importantly the programmers), leaving noone feeling 'left out'.
> >
> >It is important to see this as a stepping stone, one to be
> >done cooperatively - NOT a competition."
> >---------------------------------------------------------------
> >-------------
> >-----------
> >
> >    After that, of course, the Team Leader should be in charge
> >of keeping 'deadlines' for the development. There should be
> >rounds of brainstorming to lay down the exactness of the
> >details, followed by refinement of the product. It is
> >important that members be allowed to produce 'specialized'
> >material (so long as it is deemed fit by Team Leader's
> >opinion), although this should not interfere with the
> >'mainstream' product.
> >
> >    I'd like to close in saying that it is of course Michael's
> >decision ultimately, in what gets layed out. I only wanted to
> >voice my views from my own perceptions in the hope that it may
> >or may not be agreed with. I'm not looking to dictate to
> >anyone, or to try to impose myself onto anyone... I only want
> >what's best for the team and the project. It's been my
> >experience that what else has been proposed in the forums just
> >won't cut it for this kind of project.
> >
> >Thanks alot for your time and your efforts,
> >Jonas Laurio
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >Guy wrote:
> >
> >>hello everyone,
> >>
> >>i have just recieved an email from michael asking me to leave the
> >leadership
> >>of the cdt. so as of now, i think ill stay around, but it
> >will ofcourse
> >>be akward.
> >>
> >>it has been fun, but it also was very difficult. i think that the main
> >thing
> >>i understood in the last months is that i'm an artist (and a
> >political
> >>acitivst, an educator, partime programmer,etc .. :), but i do
> >not wish
> >>to manage things in the aspect of organization. i have very
> >clear views
> >>of how i would like to see openbeos, and i want to stay
> >around to make
> >>this work.
> >>
> >>i'm not quite sure who's taking over (since michael's email was a bit
> >>too short and undetailed in my opinion..) but i wish him goodluck.
> >>
> >>and ofcourse i would like to hear from you.
> >>
> >>guy.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >

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