[openbeos-cdt] Re: cdt leadership and my personal status.

  • From: "Boris Kuncer" <borisko@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: <openbeos-cdt@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2002 02:16:02 +0200


I have question for icon team organization.
First I would like to see who is working on icons. (who want to work on
Also it's good to know who have experience in making icons.
Just an information for better communication.
I'm trying to post one message on forum with an idea how can people help
me on my work on icons. 
Is forum dead?


>I agree in part with what you have said.  I take issue with 
>this comment:
>"It is the general concensus (from what the members have 
>posted) that everyone seems to feel the need for these things, 
>but their suggestions for the way in which they are to be 
>implemented are.... off basis. There are members that seem to 
>think we should be 'run and managed' like a business, most 
>likely due to their personal experience in their professions. 
>That is to say that they think, from what they have openly 
>said, that we should be told what to do and how to do it, and 
>that the CDT needs this to have 'direction'."
>as I have been one of the vocal proponents of this style of 
>managing the group.  Do not think of it as telling people what 
>to do, think of it as a challenge to your creativity.  For 
>instance, if you are designing a web site and your client says 
>you can't do any DHTML, the colors have to be web-safe (216 
>color web palette) and the site will be data driven so leave 
>areas where text can flow, do you chime in and say "no way, 
>you can't tell me what to do, I'm the designer" or do you say 
>"ok, let me see what I can come up with" and go back to your 
>workspace and mull the proposal over thinking within the 
>boundaries the client has created?
>If you are a professional designer you have done the latter.  
>Why? Design is not directly art.  It is an artistic endeavor 
>yet the end result must communicate an idea.  Design has 
>boundaries and limits we must work within. Technically 
>speaking, so does art; you're probably not going to use 
>watercolor on a piece of canvas or carve or build/weld/create 
>an outside sculpture using a material not suitable to 
>withstand the elements.  Anyway, it's these boundaries which 
>designers must view as a challenge, not a hindrance.  When a 
>client asks you to design an annual report you better have an 
>EXCELLENT reason for using an 11x17 inch tabloid sized paper 
>instead of working within the typical, standard 8.5x11 inch 
>letter sized page.  If they have a limited budget you need to 
>cut back on all those spot colors, spot varnishes and metallic 
>finishes.  Oh, and lose the custom die-cut as well.  If the 
>company is named "Eagle Air Freight" you best not use a hawk 
>just because you like them better.  If their colors are red, 
>white and blue, don't design their annual report with garish 
>neon-colors unless they specifically ask for them or you can 
>argue their use in some way enhances the companies image.
>This group is working on a design project, not an art project.
>That being said, I have been asked by Michael to work as the 
>project lead for the Creative Design Team.  I know in the past 
>that I might have rubbed people the wrong way.  My goal was to 
>get the group motivated to organize and begin thinking of this 
>project as a set of goals and steps which need to be attained, 
>not some loose kit group of people who like to play around 
>with image editors.  As the leader I am going to have to work 
>to be less abrasive.  At the same time, I want everyone to 
>realize that this is a global group.  We don't know one 
>another personally and we don't understand each others 
>cultures.  Keep this in mind when posting to the group AND 
>more importantly when responding to a message.
>I have to get some things together and begin drafting a 
>timeline for projects and when things should be done.  In the 
>meantime I'm going to outline a couple things here and toss 
>out the first project.  The basic course should be:
>1) name for "OBOS"
>2) define the OS identity - logo (this includes mascots, "bugs", and/or
>typography) and color schemes.
>3) UI design
>4) icon, wallpaper and sound design
>Numbers 3 and 4 can work simultaneously because there might be 
>an icon set or wallpaper design which inspires the UI team or 
>the UI could inspire a whole set of icons, sounds and 
>wallpaper.  As this part is still a few months away there 
>won't be any major focus here.  Don't let this stop you from 
>being creative, it's just that the group discussion won't take 
>place in earnest until then.  However, the icon teams do need 
>to begin working on icons which match the current BeOS R5 look 
>and feel.  My recommendations are to keep the perspective look 
>and try to use the BeOS color palette (I believe you can 
>download it from BeBits and use it in Photoshop or any other 
>image editor that can read .aco files).
>Now, some of you are probably wondering about number 1.  You 
>heard me correctly, we need to consider a name change.  
>According to Michael Phipps, OBOS or OpenBeOS are questionable 
>as to their use.  Apparently BeUnited has spent all their 
>brownie points with Palm by trying to license the BeOS source 
>code that even a question to Palm concerning the legalities of 
>using BeOS in the OS name would be out of the question.  Palm 
>simply does not want to think about their future use of the 
>BeOS IP, including the name, at this point as they have much 
>larger problems to worry about.  So, it is left to us to think 
>of some names.  I would like to set some times (I'll have a 
>few just to make sure everyone gets a chance to be involved) 
>to get the group together on IRC to have a real-time 
>discussion of this part of the project. I would like to have 
>some names to pass along to Michael and some of the other 
>decision makers for OBOS in a couple weeks, let's say by April 
>14th. This way I can send them along with my weekly status 
>report on the 15th. For now, I'm going to post a topic on the 
>forum to open the floor to name suggestions.
>That's it for now.  Think of names and if you're in the icon 
>team, start working on R5 icons.  The initial set should have 
>tracker, computer, hard drive, folder, home, trash can, 
>network, and various document type (jpg, gif, html, txt, 
>midi/audio) icons.  If you want to create common app icons for 
>the preference apps or some of the regular apps which ship 
>with BeOS R5, great but I'll have to check to see which of 
>these apps will be shipped with OBOS R1 so you might wind up 
>designing an icon which is not used at all.
>-----Original Message-----
>From: openbeos-cdt-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
>[mailto:openbeos-cdt-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of DigitalSin
>Sent: Tuesday, April 02, 2002 12:45 PM
>To: openbeos-cdt@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>Subject: [openbeos-cdt] Re: cdt leadership and my personal status.
>Hello Guy,
>    I am sad to see this but am glad that you will be sticking 
>around. Also, I can understand you not wanting to mess with 
>organization, but I see that as part of being a 'leader' for 
>the CDT ; so I can understand Michael's decision.
>    Having said that, I must also say that I agreed with how 
>you tried to bring the members together - to be more 
>productive and to work together without stepping on each 
>other's toes. You were always courteous and constructive in 
>your criticism - something I think all the members should try 
>more to emulate.
>    In that way, I do have some concerns as to the future of 
>the CDT, and to it's leadership, that I would like to address. 
>If you would kindly forward this to Michael it would be much 
>    Firstly, my main concern being the structure of the team, 
>and the views of some of the members as to how to move forward 
>in a timely fashion. While I agree with the call for a 
>'professional' appearance and internal organization, and that 
>the team needs direction, it is the means to that end that concerns me.
>    It is the general concensus (from what the members have 
>posted) that everyone seems to feel the need for these things, 
>but their suggestions for the way in which they are to be 
>implemented are.... off basis. There are members that seem to 
>think we should be 'run and managed' like a business, most 
>likely due to their personal experience in their professions. 
>That is to say that they think, from what they have openly 
>said, that we should be told what to do and how to do it, and 
>that the CDT needs this to have 'direction'.
>    I was under the impression that this was a 'Creative 
>Development Team'. There are two basic ways to 'manage' a 
>group such as this. One way is to have a leader who in the end 
>has final say in making the decisions. The other way is to 
>have the group decide, based on a voting system where the 
>highest number of votes passes a motion. Either way though, 
>there is the method of creation - born of the very words that 
>our team is entitled with - creative development.
>    The best way is to have a mixing of the two, NOT just one 
>or the other. A team leader is one who will take charge but 
>not be overpowering, and who can see both sides unbiased. What 
>has been proposed by others is contrary to these very notions.
>    Some have said that what we are striving for must be 
>defined first, before any creative work can be done. What they 
>are losing sight of is that this in itself is a creative act. 
>What we need now is for a leader to step in and say:
>"Ok everyone, as a group brainstorm proposals for
>what you think OpenBeos should look like, feel like, be 
>like... as a WHOLE - don't be too specific, think general. The 
>end for submissions is ONE WEEK from now. Remember to work 
>together, and come up with atleast five general descriptions. 
>We will then vote individually: each member can cast ONE vote 
>for any submission of their choice. The top three are then 
>voted upon in a final round. The winner will be the proposal 
>with the most points, and the ranking system is as follows:
>Team Member: 1 point
>Team Leaders: 2 points (there are fewer of us and we put up 
>with more :P) Project Leader: Breaking decision/ultimate choice
>ALL OBOS members take part in final vote, and there is an 
>anonymous person in charge of point tallying (chosen by 
>project leader).
>The chosen 'look/appearance/feel' of OpenBeos will then 
>influence all aspects of the cdt, and the voting can have a 
>positive affect (publicity). It will also give everyone a say 
>in the final outcome (including not only the cdt but 
>importantly the programmers), leaving noone feeling 'left out'.
>It is important to see this as a stepping stone, one to be 
>done cooperatively - NOT a competition."
>    After that, of course, the Team Leader should be in charge 
>of keeping 'deadlines' for the development. There should be 
>rounds of brainstorming to lay down the exactness of the 
>details, followed by refinement of the product. It is 
>important that members be allowed to produce 'specialized' 
>material (so long as it is deemed fit by Team Leader's 
>opinion), although this should not interfere with the 
>'mainstream' product.
>    I'd like to close in saying that it is of course Michael's 
>decision ultimately, in what gets layed out. I only wanted to 
>voice my views from my own perceptions in the hope that it may 
>or may not be agreed with. I'm not looking to dictate to 
>anyone, or to try to impose myself onto anyone... I only want 
>what's best for the team and the project. It's been my 
>experience that what else has been proposed in the forums just 
>won't cut it for this kind of project.
>Thanks alot for your time and your efforts,
>Jonas Laurio
>Guy wrote:
>>hello everyone,
>>i have just recieved an email from michael asking me to leave the
>>of the cdt. so as of now, i think ill stay around, but it 
>will ofcourse 
>>be akward.
>>it has been fun, but it also was very difficult. i think that the main
>>i understood in the last months is that i'm an artist (and a 
>>acitivst, an educator, partime programmer,etc .. :), but i do 
>not wish 
>>to manage things in the aspect of organization. i have very 
>clear views 
>>of how i would like to see openbeos, and i want to stay 
>around to make 
>>this work.
>>i'm not quite sure who's taking over (since michael's email was a bit 
>>too short and undetailed in my opinion..) but i wish him goodluck.
>>and ofcourse i would like to hear from you.

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