[guide.chat] In Reply To: JEASUS HAS A WIFE

From: "James Liddell" <james.liddell2@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: "Guide Chat" <guide.chat@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2012 20:17:42 +0100
Hi, Harold;
I'm pretty sure the fragment is authentic..
Don't start getting a wedding anniversary present for Jesus, though!
You see, the fact that it was written in the fourth century - at least 250 
years after the last of what we call the canonical New Testament - and written 
in Coptic - gives a strong clue that it was a Gnostic document.
 
     The Gnostics were a movement born in Greece before Christianity, but 
transferred to Christian-type beliefs in the late second till mid fourth 
centuries. They wrote several so-called Gospels which had nothing to do with 
the events in first century Palestine, and held a lot of what we call 
'Hellenistic Mysteries'. It was partly to combat these writings that Christians 
brought together all the genuine documents into what we call the New Testament. 
The Gnostics were pretty strong in Egypt...and the Arabian peninsula. That may 
have been the source of certain Islamic beliefs about Jesus.

The Gnostic stuff - Gospel of Mary, Gospel of Paul, Gospel of Thaddeus, 
Apocalypse of Thomas, etc, were looked at and rejected, simply because they 
were written so long after the events of the original happenings, and with no 
evidence to confirm either their authorship or their doctrine.
End of lecture!

-----Original Message-----
From: harold kitching - Email Address: haroä¨ld.kitching01@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent On: 19/09/2012 14:29
Sent To: guide chat - Email Address: guide.chat@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [guide.chat] JEASUS HAS A WIFE

An ancient scrap of papyrus makes explicit reference to Jesus having a wife, 
according to a renowned expert in Christian history.
Harvard divinity professor Karen King unveiled the 4th-Century Coptic script at 
a conference in Rome.
She said researchers had identified the words "Jesus said to them, 'my wife'", 
which might refer to Mary Magdalene.
Christian tradition holds that Jesus did not marry - but Ms King said in early 
years it was subject to debate.
The provocative find could spark debate over celibacy and the role of women 
within Christianity, she added.
But the announcement sparked scepticism from some theologians.
Jim West, a professor and Baptist pastor in Tennessee, said: "A statement on a 
papyrus fragment isn't proof of anything. It's nothing more than a statement 
'in thin air', without substantial context."
Ms King said the fragment, written in ancient Egyptian Coptic, is the first 
known scripture in which Jesus is reported to cite his wife.
She said several experts agree the yellowish brown papyrus is authentic, but 
that "final judgment on the fragment depends on further examination by 
colleagues and further testing, especially of the chemical composition of the 
ink".'Worthy disciple' 
A video filmed by Harvard University reveals experts were "sceptical" before 
examining the ancient scrap of papyrus 
Although the script is not proof of Jesus's marital status, Ms King said it 
revealed concerns early Christians faced with regards to family and marriage 
matters.
"This fragment suggests that some early Christians had a tradition that Jesus 
was married," she said.
"From the very beginning, Christians disagreed about whether it was better not 
to marry, but it was over a century after Jesus's death before they began 
appealing to Jesus's marital status to support their positions.
"What this shows is that there were early Christians for whom sexual union in 
marriage could be an imitation of God's creativity and generativity and it 
could be spiritually proper and appropriate."
According to Ms King's research team, the text also quotes Jesus as telling his 
followers that Mary Magdalene is worthy of being his disciple.
This, in turn, casts new doubt on the long-held belief that Jesus had no female 
disciples, and raises issues about Mary's biblical role as a sinner, they said.
Ms King presented the document at a six-day conference held at Rome's La 
Sapienza University and at the Augustinianum institute of the Pontifical 
Lateran University.
The faded papyrus is hardly bigger than a business card and has eight lines on 
one side, in black ink legible under a magnifying glass.
The private collector, who owns the fragment, has asked to remain anonymous 
because "he doesn't want to be hounded by people who want to buy this", Ms King 
said. 
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[guide.chat] In Reply To: JEASUS HAS A WIFE

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