Hi John, I feel the same as you on this issue about the training of dogs and people! I like the same dogs as you but, I just can't get one for whatever reason. I keep asking for one but, I never get one. I'm happy with the dog I have! she is a good little worker. she is a yellow lab and golden retriever cross. I hope when I get dog number 6, things will go well for me. Cathie -----Original Message----- From: John Keel - Email Address: j.keel142,©8@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx Sent On: 18/10/2012 22:05 Sent To: guide.chat@xxxxxxxxxxxxx - Email Address: guide.chat@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [guide.chat] Calling all guide dog owners Hi all, I got my first dog in 1970, just 42 years ago. During that time I have had 7 dogs of which, Winnie, my retired dog is the last in a long line. I can't retrain because I cannot walk very well any more. Winnie gets her exercise with the help of a dog walker who takes her for an hour's run every day. All 7 dogs have been German Shepherds and I wouldn't have anything else. I was trained domiciliary with Winnie and before that, I had to go to one of the residential training centres for about three and a half weeks. During this time we not only did 2 45 minute walks a day, but we also got lectures from the instructors on things like dog management and dog psychology and lessons on feeding and grooming. My training with Winnie lasted just 16 days which consisted of one walk a day and one general talk. At the end of it all, she was still reluctant to walk past a silent parked vehicle in the street and was very nervous. Personally, I favour the old training methods to what goes on today because there seemed to be fewer problems at the end of it. On the other hand, I can only see one advantage in present day methods in that is that at the training centres, we did a lot of things we were unlikely to use in our every day lives like country walks down roads with no pavement and walking round roundabouts. Whereas, training tries to match the needs of the individual. This debate has been raging within guide dogs for many years and little attention is given to it by top management. Their argument is that they conduct these surveys and claim a high satisfaction among guide dog owners. The problem is that most recently trained people just don't know any different so are bound to be satisfied. I am also very worried about breeding standards. So many dogs these days seem to be very nervous and suffer from skin complaints and, in my opinion, are too soft. I also understand that owners can no longer buy their dog at the end of training so the dog remains permanently the property of the Association. I bought all my dogs for just 5 each. Another thing that worries me is that the association only publishes figures on it's successes and not on failures and rejects. I would welcome your views and opinions. Regards, John Keel