[gptalk] Re: Installing Applications Fails[Scanned]
- From: Thorbjörn Sjövold <thorbjorn.sjovold@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <gptalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2007 23:49:04 +0100
Darren,
are we talking about the same thing, I do not follow you? Unless something is
wrong with the ACLs of SYSVOL or the computer account you would be able to do a
DIR for example from a command prompt running with LocalSystem credentials.
Perhaps I misunderstood what you meant but since there seems to be some general
confusion about what happens when the LocalSystem accesses the network, a short
summary could be cool for those of you that are in the mood for some weekend
geek reading; yes I know it isn't weekend yet, but here in Sweden we are at
least getting very close to Friday :).
LocalSystem (or Network Service) is the machine account (or at least have the
NT AUTHORITY\SYSTEM SID in its token), and can access to the network (unless we
are talking NT4 where the SYSTEM credentials accessing the network resulted in
a Null Sessions, basically as no user at all), no need for impersonfication,
i.e. any process running as LocalSystem access the network as
<domain>\<computername>$. Although there are some strange stuff going on under
the hood for computer accounts, for instance is the LocalSystem Kerberos
Tickets not populated with the SIDs of the groups as a normal user token is,
add your computer to a some groups, reboot, start a command prompt as
LocalSystem (described at the start at this thread) and run a WHOAMI /GROUPS
and you'll see that the groups are not there. But in the end this is not
something one need to worry about, this is taken care of during the network
access, the important thing is that it is possible to access the network as
Local System without any extra effort, besides the proper permissions of course
on the network resources). I have done this both from Services and Group Policy
Client Side Extensions I've written, all running as LocalSystem, so I am sure
it works :)
Since GP is running inside the Winlogon process, prior to Vista, and Winlogon
is running as LocalSystem this is exactly the same scenario. If we forget that
Winlogon.exe/Userenv.dll handles all the profile stuff etc that obviously
requires impersonification if the user logging on, my guess is that any
impersonification calls being made during actual GP processing is since
Winlogon uses the users token when processing GP for users, but if it really
also impersonate during computer processing then my guess is that it is because
the GP team wanted the code to be identical for users and computers,
impersonating yourself is not forbidden (although the effect is of course not
very drastic since it is like going to a masquerade and dress up as yourself ),
and thus they get more readable code instead of doing some stuff for the user
and some for the computer. But since I do not have access to the Windows source
code :( it is only my qualified guess.
Best,
Thorbjörn Sjövold
Special Operations Software
www.specopssoft.com <http://www.specopssoft.com/>
thorbjorn.sjovold a t specopssoft.com
Download our free tool for remote Gpupdate with graphical reporting,
http://www.specopssoft.com/products/specopsgpupdate/
________________________________
From: gptalk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:gptalk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of Darren Mar-Elia
Sent: den 15 februari 2007 15:53
To: gptalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [gptalk] Re: Installing Applications Fails[Scanned]
Thorbjorn-
I would think this would not work at all from the LocalSystem account because
in order for it to access network resources, it would need to impersonate the
machine account, which I didn't think was an automatic thing (i.e. during GP
processing, there is an explicit call to ImpersonateUser).
Darren
From: gptalk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:gptalk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of Thorbjörn Sjövold
Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 5:14 AM
To: gptalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [gptalk] Re: Installing Applications Fails[Scanned]
My suggestion was something like (If your AD domain DNS name is for example
"parkstone.local")
DIR \\parkstone.local\SYSYVOL\parkstone.local
<file:///\\parkstone.local\SYSYVOL\parkstone.local> (from a client where you
are experiencing the problem)
Thorbjörn Sjövold
Special Operations Software
www.specopssoft.com <http://www.specopssoft.com/>
thorbjorn.sjovold a t specopssoft.com
Download our free tool for remote Gpupdate with graphical reporting,
http://www.specopssoft.com/products/specopsgpupdate/
________________________________
From: gptalk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:gptalk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of Craig Judd
Sent: den 15 februari 2007 13:49
To: gptalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [gptalk] Re: Installing Applications Fails[Scanned]
Thanks Thorbjörn
I have again run an interactive session and tried what you said, but cannot
seem to connect to the SYSVOL
When I run NET VIEW from the domain controller in question I can see all the
shares including NETLOGON AND SYSVOL but yet when I try to open them I receive
the following error.
"SYSTEM ERROR 123
The filename, Directory Name, or Volume label syntax is incorrect."
When you suggested connecting to \\<domain.rootdomain\SYSVOL\<domain.rootdomain
<file:///\\%3cdomain.rootdomain\SYSVOL\%3cdomain.rootdomain> what exact
syntax should I use for this.
Thanks
Craig
From: gptalk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:gptalk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of Thorbjörn Sjövold
Sent: 15 February 2007 10:00
To: gptalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [gptalk] Re: Installing Applications Fails[Scanned]
You are running with the system credentials (system level) but you get prompted
for credentials because the Redirector (Workstation service) figures out that
to access the resources you request the current ones are inadequate. On the
network the mighty Local System account is just another user, if you have
security logging enabled on your share you would find the computer name with a
$ sign , e.g. "mycomputer$" sign after it as it it is the computer SAM account
name that is used when a computer is trying to access something.
Your account obviously are still connected to the domain, since Group Policy is
processing fine. In the System command prompt I assume you can read from
SYSVOL. i.e. \\<domain.rootdomain\SYSVOL\<domain.rootdomain
<file:///\\%3cdomain.rootdomain\SYSVOL\%3cdomain.rootdomain> ? Also do you
have any problems accessing the shares as an ordinary user and not as the
computer?
HTH,
Thorbjörn Sjövold
Special Operations Software
www.specopssoft.com <http://www.specopssoft.com/>
thorbjorn.sjovold a t specopssoft.com
Download our free tool for remote Gpupdate with graphical reporting,
http://www.specopssoft.com/products/specopsgpupdate/
________________________________
From: gptalk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:gptalk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of Craig Judd
Sent: den 15 februari 2007 10:21
To: gptalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [gptalk] Re: Installing Applications Fails[Scanned]
I did try this, it seems like an excellent way to determine access rights from
the system level. I obviously have a problem because I am trying to connect to
our shares
Net view \\10.1.1.10\[sharename <file:///\\10.1.1.10\%5bsharename> ] and I get
the error
"System error 5 Access is denied" - this seems to be blanket across all shares,
even if I have "everyone" read only and the "domain computers" read only on the
shares and file level security.
If I Net Use * \\10.1.1.10\[sharename <file:///\\10.1.1.10\%5bsharename> ] I
get prompted for username and password. But I thought this was running at the
system level?
Any ideas?
Regards
Craig
From: gptalk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:gptalk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of Thorbjörn Sjövold
Sent: 14 February 2007 15:22
To: gptalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [gptalk] Re: Installing Applications Fails[Scanned]
If this is a computer based deployment, here is a neat little trick to check if
this is permission problem:
1) Log on as an administrator on a computer where you have the problem.
2) Start a Command Prompt
3) Run the command "AT <A time close to now> /Interactive cmd.exe"
4) When the jobs runs a new command prompt will pop up where you are actually
running with the security credentials as the System, i.e. the computer account.
5) Try to access the path where your files are located using for example DIR
from the new command prompt. If you get an Access Denied here then you know it
is a permission problem.
Observe that this will not work in Vista due to all services and the system
itself now have their Windows Stations in Session 0 and we mortals do not :)
HTH,
Thorbjörn Sjövold
Special Operations Software
www.specopssoft.com <http://www.specopssoft.com/>
thorbjorn.sjovold a t specopssoft.com
Download our free tool for remote Gpupdate with graphical reporting,
http://www.specopssoft.com/products/specopsgpupdate/
________________________________
From: gptalk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:gptalk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of Darren Mar-Elia
Sent: den 14 februari 2007 15:58
To: gptalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [gptalk] Re: Installing Applications Fails
Craig-
This is a common problem I see and I'll be darned if I can find a common
thread. But, some things to check. If you are deploying per-computer, try
granting the Domain Computers group explicit read access to these shares and
files. I know that it shouldn't matter if you already have the Everyone group
but I have seen this help. 2nd thing-if the servers are 2003, SP1, there may be
some SMB signing going on that the clients can't handle. Make sure that your
security settings on the servers don't require SMB signing or that your clients
are set to respond to it.
Those are the two things that come to mind right away. Let us know if neither
helps.
Darren
From: gptalk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:gptalk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of Craig Judd
Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2007 12:45 AM
To: gptalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [gptalk] Installing Applications Fails
Hi
We have a medium sized Active Directory that has been in place for about 3 yrs,
apart from the deployment of the Office Suite against the "domain policy" we
have OU's that represent each group of machines and in turn we have associated
applications for each department trying to install from these OU's. The office
installation succeeds by the way.
However it has come to light that these other apps fail to be deployed
successfully, the LOG entry says that the "source installation file is not
available".
So we see that when we reboot a client workstation it says that it is
installing the required application, it all appears to go through ok, the log
in box finally appears, but yet the deployed application has not been installed.
The source files are available at the share location, and all security and
rights are available to everyone as read only.
Any pointers as to why the apps are failing to deploy would be a huge help,
thanks in advance.
Craig Judd
ICT Network Manager
Parkstone Grammar School,
Sopers Lane,
Poole,
Dorset.
BH17 7EP
01202 605617
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