On Wed, Feb 04, 2004 at 01:40:26PM -0800, Chris Grigg wrote: > >Not necessarily true. If you think of music time more as a metronome, it > >keeps going. > > Tempo change, time signature change...? it speeds up or slows down. but the beats keep going. Should a beat-synced effect stop working just because the transport is stopped? > >Transport time relates to the position within a piece of known > >length. > > Length of a piece is not necessarily knowable. Yeah, I thought about that - how do we represent transport time? Or maybe we don't? > >If we allow syncing to music time - such as a delay every beat, > >then we need to consider that music time continues while transport stops OR > >we need to force tempo-synced effects to convert their tempo-sync into the > >master clock or real time. > > Freewheeling some clock from its last known rates to achieve this > kind of special case effect is not necessarily the same as knowing > the true musical position. Position is irrelevant to the passing of time. You (may) need to know how long a beat is and when the next one starts regardless of your current position. Tempo-synced effects must still work with the transport off. > 1. I think musical position from the start of playback is a useful > thing to be able to get, and is not a simple/direct conversion from > sample clock, so I think we need both; I agree this is non-obvious > 2. It remains to be seen whether the source of musical timing (out of > band to note events etc.) should send interested plugs regular > musical position update events (analogous to the MIDI Timing Clock > message and/or MIDI Bar Marker & Time Signature messages), but this > would be one way to clock the kind of thing you have in mind. (The > alternative would be to rely -only- on a high-res fractional musical > position stapled to the start of the current timeslice -- may be OK, > but extracting beats gets messy.) right - my thoughts exactly. > 3. How bad would it be to say that musical clocking goes away when > you press stop? (I'm asking, not trying to be snide.) Changing time > signature and tempo while stopped is kind of an odd concept, as the > conductor's baton is no longer moving... I think it's bad. I think it would show a lack of vision to allow that. I sometimes use my host as an effects rack and play stuff live through it. I expect beat-synced effects to work. If I speed up the tempo, I STILL expect them to work. This is what I originally dubbed as metronome time. The beat number may not be siginificant, but the existance of a beat IS. > Again I ask what the definition of 'transport controller' is. Is it > just a tempo/time-signature master, or just a play/start/stop/locate > master, or is it both? If it's just a thing that's iterating (say, > looping) across its own chunk of score/notation/sequencer track, then > there's no reason to limit the number of them. Imagine a bunch of I'm starting to get a better picture of what I mean. :) The transport controller manages transport start/stop/pause, playback location, and maybe shuttle speed. Most plugins won't care about transport state (except maybe shuttle speed...). So I don't see any reason to disallow it anymore.. > >I'm sorry I'm being dense on this - can you explain how UTC solves this? I > >understand about having a neutral high resolution clock, but based on my > >understanding of UTC (as we have defined it), how does it solve this? > > Second that. I'd especially like an explanation of how UTC relates > to sync across different boxes, word clock across different boxes, > house sync, and how disagreements among all of the above should be > resolved. In short: I'm a plug, hey here's an event that has to > happen at a specific time, but the event has multiple time fields, so > how do I decide when to use the UTC field vs. when do I use the > sample frame index field? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Generalized Music Plugin Interface (GMPI) public discussion list Participation in this list is contingent upon your abiding by the following rules: Please stay on topic. You are responsible for your own words. Please respect your fellow subscribers. Please do not redistribute anyone else's words without their permission. Archive: //www.freelists.org/archives/gmpi Email gmpi-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx w/ subject "unsubscribe" to unsubscribe