[gmpi] Re: 3.15 MIDI
- From: "gogins@xxxxxxxxxxxx" <gogins@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: gmpi@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 08:31:51 -0400
Actually, where I would use Csound, BT uses Kyma, which is a software
synthesis system written in Smalltalk that controls a hardware DSP board.
I'm just speculating here, based on interviews, but I suspect that why BT
works in Pro Tools (instead of entirely in Kyma) is for easy overdubbing,
and
creating really big arrangements with lots of tracks, and looping over short
sections and tweaking them over and over and over...
Another consideration is that Pro Tools has become a standard, and is used
as a file sharing format by those who collaborate on pieces. BT definitely
collaborates.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Grigg" <gmpi-public@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <gmpi@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2004 8:25 PM
Subject: [gmpi] Re: 3.15 MIDI
> For these kinds of compositions, instead of criticizing MIDI for not
> handling them the way you need them, and since you don't need
> keyboard input, why not just use Csound instead?
>
> -- Chris G.
>
> >On Wednesday, June 16, 2004 1:28 AM [GMT+1=CET],
> >Tom White <xxxtwhite@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> >
> >>> your mouse communicates faster with your computer than MIDI
> >>> does
> >>
> >> Obviously he is talking about 5-Pin DIN MIDI, and that problem
> >> was solved in... oh, 1984. Anyway, we aren't talking about 5-Pin
> >> MIDI in GMPI, so this statement is irrelevant.
> >
> >Of course, granted, in this context it is. It was in that same part of
the
> >interview, so I kept it in context, that's all.
> >
> >>> -and it's so inaccurate.
> >>> It's embarrassing that we use it, to me, in music. It can be so
> >>> sloppy sounding.
> >>
> >> MIDI notes, without additional timestamping handled elsewhere, can
> >> be accurate to about 1ms over a 5-Pin DIN cable. But you can do
> >> much better on higher-speed transports, especially with timestamps.
> >>
> >> Also, the keyboard you play on has some responsibility for the
> >> timing, too, and would perform the same regardless of what kind
> >> of transport you used to get the data out.
> >
> >If you're playing a keyboard, yes. I rather think he's talking about
sending
> >MIDI messages over a wire if you ask me.
> >
> >> Besides, there are few people who can feel such a small difference
> >> (1ms). But there are some.
> >
> >There are some indeed.
> >But more importantly, there are practical situations where small
differences
> >can cause severe phasing artefacts, if notes were supposed to be started
at
> >rather exact times but are not.
> >
> >>> I'll let them program a beat and then listen to it and I go,
> >>> "Okay, let's go convert it into audio and I'm going to time
> >>> correct it."
> >>> And then they listen to it and they're like, "Oh god, I'm
> >>> destroyed for life-I'll never be able to use MIDI again."
> >>
> >> That's a ridiculous complaint. They should record a drummer and
> >> do the same exercise; musicians are not sample accurate either.
> >> So what? They play the way they play.
> >
> >I still see this as a limitation if there are other ways that can be more
> >accurate (like time-stamped events, as someone already mentioned).
> >
> >> In fact, Jitter (notes shifting ahead or behind unpredictably)
> >> in MIDI is well within musical performance limits...
> >
> >For loose-standing notes, probably yes. But see above.
> >
> >> jitter in
> >> a keyboard or in a device driver is probably much worse (which
> >> wouldn't really be problem with "MIDI").
> >>
> >>> If you track sixteenth notes at 120 BPMs coming out of a
> >>> brand-fucking-spanking-new synth, say the Trinity, with the
> >>> Uniter Aid, hooked up to a fast Mac, and track those and
> >>> look at them, you'll fucking die! You'll have one that's
> >>> twenty samples late and the next one will be 300 samples
> >>> early and the one after that will be 150 samples late.
> >>
> >> Again, musicians don't play sample accurate, and MIDI is a
> >> paradigm for musical performance. That's all as good as it
> >> is supposed to be.
> >
> >Michael Gogins might probably be able to explain this better, but I just
> >wanted to say that if you're dealing with controlling grain clouds for
> >example, sometimes you need to have very accurate onset times for all
your
> >voices, or you will not get the effect you're after. In these cases, it's
> >really a must to have very accurate timing.
> >
> >> I don't see how BT can like the way any musicians play if he
> >> wants sample accurate performances.
> >
> >I think he doesn't want sample accurate performances "just for the fact
that
> >it's sample accurate": he wants sample accurate performances to avoid
> >hearing artefacts (like phasing and the sometimes hearable jitter) due to
> >non-sample-accurate event timing, I guess.
> >
> >Koen
> >
> >
> >
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>
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