[ggo-discussion] Re: Editing the game when playing

  • From: Koushiro Izzy Izumi <izzy_millennium@xxxxxxxxx>
  • To: ggo-discussion@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 21:38:54 -0700 (PDT)

I guess you're right. I've been improving alot myself
since the times where I used the Edit Game feature...
but still, having the feature there would be great for
people who just started to play or something... Maybe
make it enabled only for players like 25k and below?
(I'm 27k on IGS currently)
Another thing is that I disagree that gGo 'downgrades'
to follow to Panda Egg's standard. I do agree on the
disadvantages on Panda Egg over gGo. But why don't
Panda Egg upgrade with the features. Why must it be
the other way round? Besides, each is unique to
itself, and has it's own features. Edit Game was part
of gGo's features which is not included in Panda Egg.
Although thinking instead of using the edit game
feature is indeed better, it takes alot more time and
is hard for beginners, especially for kids like I am
that seldom/never plays games that requires deep
thinking like Go.
I would say - Let one decide whether to use the
feature or not. If they're good enough to start to not
use it, then they should not. Otherwise, it would be a
great way to learn, instead of getting crushed totally
over a game on IGS.

--- Peter Strempel <zotan@xxxxxx> wrote:
> At 20:49 13.05.2003 +0100, you wrote:
> >Hey all, Peter removed the edit game feature
> because some people complained
> >that it was cheating really to edit the game and
> read out sequences on your
> >computer instead of in your head.
> Yes, that was one of the reasons. Some people
> complained that players using 
> gGo have the advantage to players using PandaEgg,
> which does not offer an 
> in-game edit feature. I understand that.
> >One guy trying to read something out in his head...
> the other easily trying
> >out long sequences of moves on their client!
> >
> >Anyway, better practice to read out in one's head!
> ;)
> That is the other reason, and actually the good one.
> As I suck at Go pretty 
> much it is quite ridiculous if I give advice, but I
> suppose any strong 
> player will agree that you will never get better if
> you cannot read ahead 
> some moves in your head. After all, if you play in
> real life, club or 
> tournament, you cannot take a second board and try
> out some variations. 
> Well, you can, but I think that's a rather bad idea.
> I had complained a little to a quite strong player
> some months ago that I 
> dont get past that 8k border. I asked where and how
> I usually play, and 
> when I said mainly on IGS with gGo, he asked if I
> use the 'Edit' feature a 
> lot to try out sequences. I nodded and said, I do.
> He answered: Then you 
> will never get stronger.
> Quite convincing. :)
> Actually, quite some people told me its good the
> feature is removed, as it 
> forces them to think themselves.
> If you look at the Tango advertisment on its
> webpage, it tells you it makes 
> you stronger because you can edit your games and
> even ask GnuGo to make 
> your next move (tho never tried it). I suppose I
> could advertise gGo with 
> the sentence that it makes you stronger because it
> helps you to think 
> yourself. :)
> Same with the score estimator. Learn to count if you
> want to improve your 
> Go. And on a real board you need to count yourself,
> too.
>   Peter

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