Marc. Someone needs to remind me what Scripture and the Church says as regards the earth being the centre of the universe.. Merely making it rock solid and immovavle does not explicitly mean that it is the centre.. I have heaps of expert theological opinions, to wade through.. But the wording of Scripture alone should suffice.. That is all the Church had to go on when it made certain that the world did not move around the sun, or spin . I think we just assumed all the rest.. Philip ----- Original Message ----- From: marc-veilleux@xxxxxxxxxxxx To: Geocentric Sent: Monday, May 26, 2008 9:05 AM Subject: [geocentrism] Re: parallax Philip, how about the possibility that all stars rotate around the Polaris star ? http://www.wiser.tv/physics/motionless.html Marc V. ----- Original Message ----- From: philip madsen Sent: 25 mai 2008 17:24 To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [geocentrism] Re: parallax If Parallax is real, then yes the stars have to be centred on the sun.. just as all have agreed. for it to be identical in the geocentric system.. I'm hoping I'm wrong again again .. Philip. ----- Original Message ----- From: philip madsen To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Sent: Sunday, May 25, 2008 3:15 PM Subject: [geocentrism] parallax I almost forgot these few words on parallax.. Its years since we last discussed this subject on this list, and I thought resolved it yet here we go again. Not complaining because this new argument was presented by both sides, that the stars have to be centred on the sun for parallax to be identical in both systems.. Before I specifically detail my concerns with this, I will first present my basic concept of parallax which the technician learned.. and you all can have the opportunity to tell me if I am wrong. Parallax was first presented to me as parallax error, In a lesson on meters and how to read them correctly. Because the scale was behind the moving pointer we were shown that to read the meter correctly and avoid parallax error the eye had to be directly in the same line as the moving pointer and the scale mark being read. To this end the meter face scale had a small mirror. All that was necessary was to keep the pointer in line with its reflection to get a precise reading. This error is quite significant, and it would be the same error if one moved the meter to the left or right, as it was if one moved the head. Purely a relative positions phenomena. With out any complication, isn't that parallax? Two proximate stars in the distance, one closer. From the summer side of the sun the further star will be seen to the right of the closer. From the winter side of the sun it will be seen on the left side of the closer.. Straight common sense for a heliocentric orbiting world. .. But if the world was fixed, and all the stars moved across the sky, as it appears to us the observer, from my angle this parallax movement (error) will be identical. The meter was moved instead of my head!!!! I can imagine that a central position relative to a triangulation with the sun may effect the deviation angles off centre, but this can be computed from knowledge of the phase difference in the sun and stars angular speed. relative to a fixed longitude on the world. Where does this need for centering the universe on the sun instead of the world, come from??? Curious. Thats my basic understanding.. I will now go draw some geometry and figure it out. ... Philip. ----- Original Message ----- From: Regner Trampedach To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Sent: Sunday, May 25, 2008 10:56 AM Subject: [geocentrism] Re: Inertia No worries, Paul, sorry for the wait. Regner Paul Deema wrote: Regner T A timely post! I was beginning to wilt under the Goebbels gambit from Allen re gravity/inertia and inertia/distant_stars. Thank you for restoring my confidence in physics and my limited understanding of same. Paul D ----- Original Message ---- From: Regner Trampedach <art@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Sent: Friday, 23 May, 2008 4:54:26 AM Subject: [geocentrism] Inertia I am afraid I don't have the time to dig up all the relevant posts and reply to them individually. This post, however, should address many issues raised over the concept of inertia in a range of threads in this forum. In Philip Madsen's post, 10/05/2008 he correctly points out the difference between "equivalence" and "equality". That is an important distinction. In physics and astronomy we don't have a habit of redefining words, as opposed to, say, in politics... a) Gravity and inertia are not the same. b) Gravitational mass and inertial mass, do seem to be the same (no observations have contradicted this, to date). c) Inertia cannot be caused by gravity from the distant stars - no matter how far away or how the are distributed. The gravitational force from the distant stars is minuscule compared to all the other forces we are subject to - do the math! If the Universe (on large scales) has a smooth matter distribution, the gravity from all directions will cancel each other. It is obviously not completely uniform, so let's explore the other extreme: Only stars from one direction, say, a cone of 30° opening angle contribute any gravity. The pull from all those stars, back to the beginning of time, would be a million-million times feebler than gravity from Earth. If the Universe is only 6000 years old (and gravity travels at the speed of light) the pull from those stars would be yet another factor of a million times feebler. And there is of course the problem about direction. How can the distant stars know which way we are trying to move a body, and then counter- act that motion with a gravitational pull in the opposite direction. It can't make sense, whichever way you look at it. d) Maybe I need to point out that forces are vectors and they are additive. That means, that if you have two forces of equal magnitude but opposite direction, the nett-force will be exactly zero. And the behaviour of an object in that zero nett-force field does not depend in the slightest on how that zero came about; whether it be from no forces at all, or from huge, but opposing forces. Only the (vector-)sum matters. e) If gravity created inertial mass, we would be able to predict the mass of objects from the law of gravity - we can't! We can only observe and use Newton's 2nd law (F = m*a) and maybe the law of gravity or others, to infer the mass. f) There has been other philosophical theories about the distant stars "somehow" giving rise to inertia, but no successful physical theory that I am aware of. g) The best current candidate for a inertial field, is the Higg's field, mediated by the Higg's boson - but there are, of course, competing theories. The Large Hadron Collider (LHC) at CERN, opening later this year, should be able to detect the Higg's boson if it exists And the Higg's field would be a local field, not depending on the totality of stars in the Universe. h) Lastly, but very important: We know how inertia works, and not knowing why, doesn't really change that. Claiming that classical mechanics doesn't work because we don't know where inertia comes from, is therefore nothing but obstruction and obfuscation from the issues at hand. Finding out what gives rise to inertia is a separate and obviously very interesting question. I have tried to address most of the inertial issues that have surfaced in this forum lately (I predict that Allen will disagree - I must be a psychic...) and the verbosity (I apologize) is due to an attempt at catching some of the most glaring objections that could arise. Regner ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Get the name you always wanted with the new y7mail email address. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 269.24.1/1464 - Release Date: 5/24/2008 8:56 AM -------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 269.24.1/1464 - Release Date: 5/24/2008 8:56 AM ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 269.24.1/1466 - Release Date: 5/25/2008 6:49 PM