The problem is these people are committed to other things. Regards, Nick. Yes, but I say their commitment can be as honest as is ours. Mistaken as he is, (according to us) none can doubt the honest commitment of a young Islamic suicide bomber. Do you see my drift why I think you /we may be too harsh on Allen. When I entered the Catholic School, they nominated me as a non Catholic, and I was not required to attend religious instruction. I objected on the grounds that I was not baptised into any denomination, and was an athiest. Not because I souight truth, but honestly to challenge their position and have fun. Such is youth. They answered my challenges. There was no coercion. They never ever threatened me with Hell in the manner that you seem to have done here on this forum. Oh yes they convinced me of Hell, but no more to me than to the rest of their own boys. I'm not intending to weaken your obvious concern for their souls, and i fully support your intentions, but I fear your dogmatic approach is too antagonistic. I am sure the others realise your zeal for their souls is honest, ja and allen have said as much, but you have to accept that they feel the same way for you and me. Calm ordered analysis of the subject is the order of the day, (as I personally received at the Christian Brothers college in '48) however I am not sure this is the forum for it, or indeed if Neville would allow it. Phiip Cut off time 48 hours away. exhausted, and intoxicated. ----- Original Message ----- From: Niemann, Nicholas K. To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2005 9:30 AM Subject: [geocentrism] Re: ignorance. Philip, I'm not judging the person, which is for God alone. But, as you know, this doesn't mean we cannot speak objectively. I stated the assumption of "wilful" rejection. This was not intended to personally judge someone, and if it was read that way, let this serve as a clarification. Also in front of Pilate, Christ said: "For this was I born, and for this came I into the world, that I should give testimony to the truth: every one that is of the truth, heareth my voice." John 18:37 (Douay Rheims). Do you think that if the person is committed to the truth (i.e.Christ) that Christ will withhold the truth from him. I don't think so. The problem is these people are committed to other things. Regards, Nick. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: Philip [mailto:joyphil@xxxxxxxxxxx] Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2005 6:15 PM To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [geocentrism] ignorance. You are right, it is sin which condemns. And the now wilful rejection of the Truth is such a sin. Regards, Nick. I have a difficulty with that Nick. How can any but God judge who WILFULLY rejects a truth and the one who through no fault of his own, fails to comprehend a truth as truth? I will probably get hit for this one, but I truly sympathise with Pilate when he said "what is Truth" . Yet his wife was given the grace to see it. Philip.